• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

What purpose did the tax cut for the wealthiest serve?

Occam's Razor said:
I don't really care what you do... only that you try to use it as some sort of prop for your baseless arguments.

What exactly do you want me to put up? I made no claims... you did. It's on you sporto.

You brought up Taft-Hartley and Gompers but refused to say anything about how it relates to supporting your off topic position, except to bluster about your job and masters degree... alleged.

So... how about showing you know what you're talking about instead of just asking everyone to accept it without any proof. Again... don't care where your cracker-jack degree is from, if you can't speak on the issues YOU bring up... then all anyone can assume is you don't know...
Click to expand...

you tend to be selective in your demands for proof. for example, when one person claimed that the average union member was more educated on labor issues you didn't say a thing. remind me what issues you aren't left wing on
 
TurtleDude said:
you tend to be selective in your demands for proof. for example, when one person claimed that the average union member was more educated on labor issues you didn't say a thing. remind me what issues you aren't left wing on
Click to expand...

You don't have anything but defections do you?

If you want to have a small gov't debate, I'll take you to school
If you want to have a 2nd amendment debate, I'll school you there too.
If you want to talk about real, traditional, conservative values... no worries there either

So let's see... you use unsubstantiated claims of personal accomplishments to support your "case" that itself has no real support other than your blustering...

... and presume that because you haven't seen something from someone I presume you don't invest much time in... you assume it doesn't exist... you don't win many cases, do you?

The reason I didn't say anything is because on the whole, against the general population, that statement is fairly accurate. You never answered my question, compared to who do they know or not know more than?

Now that you've dodged your own claim to knowledge of Taft-Hartley and Gompers... something so vital to your argument, I'll ask one final time... what did that have to do with the thread topic and share what you know of those cases... or... never live it down.
 
TurtleDude said:
true, I don't know anything about broadway musicals, HVAC repair, tap dancing, or servicing hard drives.

Labor law and labor history, have a masters in that
Click to expand...

Do you want it done right?
 
TurtleDude said:
when I post stuff that is of equal factual merit you avoid it. debating by proxy is lame. why don't you tell us in your own words why proof of the middle class disappearing is proven by say the amount of debt "keeping up with the Joneses" middle class families have accumulated?
Click to expand...

That just it, you don't post facts, you post your distorted opinion as if it were fact. Most of our debt was approved by the GOP as part of their failed trickle down economics over the last 30 years. The only decision now is if the middle class are stupid enough to continue letting them **** us, or if they fight back next November.

I'm betting they fight back!
 
TurtleDude said:
You love government and hate corporations. I merely point out that you worship an entity that has killed far more people
Click to expand...

The conducting of wars is the province of government. To say that governments have killed more people than corporations is to engage in a totally ridiculous fallacy that throws all reasoning out the window. Governments of ALL KINDS - left right and center have engaged in war for thousands of years. Sadly, it is one of the things that government sometimes does. That is a terrible thing most of the time.

But that does nothing to mitigate or negate any harm to both individuals and society by corporations bent on worshipping Mammon and serving only the almighty dollar and profit.

Governments also engage in society building and bringing justice and a better life to billions of people.

Show us a successful country of people that has no institution of government.

This rant of yours is simply a ridiculous strawman.

Are you suddenly an anarchist now Turtle? Are you serious about this sudden war on government that you want to wage or is this just right wing hyperbole that conveniently seems to fit your current cause celebre?
 
TurtleDude said:
put up and I will. until then you are wasting bandwidth.

CC has already schooled a couple on this subject. I never doubted Haymarket's claims that he was a union member or officer. I find it funny that some of you libs cannot handle the fact i am an attorney
Click to expand...

Turtle - a serious and honest question for you: how many times has this happened where a member expresses serious doubts that you are what you say you are? This seems to happen to you on a regular basis.

Did you ever stop and ask yourself why this perception exists?

Did you ever stop and ask your self what is it about the way you present yourself here that causes people to doubt that you have the education and skills that you claim you possess?

The fact is that lawyers are perceived by many as educated people who are trained in the mechanics of research, case building and presentation of an argument based on evidence and proof. What is it about your approach here with seems to defy that belief about lawyers and their skills?

When you can honestly look at yourself, look at your posts and answer that question, you will see why you have this perception problem and why people doubt who you say you are.
 
haymarket said:
Turtle - a serious and honest question for you: how many times has this happened where a member expresses serious doubts that you are what you say you are? This seems to happen to you on a regular basis.

Did you ever stop and ask yourself why this perception exists?

Did you ever stop and ask your self what is it about the way you present yourself here that causes people to doubt that you have the education and skills that you claim you possess?

The fact is that lawyers are perceived by many as educated people who are trained in the mechanics of research, case building and presentation of an argument based on evidence and proof. What is it about your approach here with seems to defy that belief about lawyers and their skills?

When you can honestly look at yourself, look at your posts and answer that question, you will see why you have this perception problem and why people doubt who you say you are.
Click to expand...

I for one place little on the law degree claim... Lots of less than intelligent people become third rate divorce, personal injury.. .and my favorite these days, disability lawyers. I actually would (if true) put more weight on the alleged masters degree.

The rest of your post... ya... what haymarket said...
 
Occam's Razor said:
You don't have anything but defections do you?

If you want to have a small gov't debate, I'll take you to school
If you want to have a 2nd amendment debate, I'll school you there too.
If you want to talk about real, traditional, conservative values... no worries there either

So let's see... you use unsubstantiated claims of personal accomplishments to support your "case" that itself has no real support other than your blustering...

... and presume that because you haven't seen something from someone I presume you don't invest much time in... you assume it doesn't exist... you don't win many cases, do you?

The reason I didn't say anything is because on the whole, against the general population, that statement is fairly accurate. You never answered my question, compared to who do they know or not know more than?

Now that you've dodged your own claim to knowledge of Taft-Hartley and Gompers... something so vital to your argument, I'll ask one final time... what did that have to do with the thread topic and share what you know of those cases... or... never live it down.
Click to expand...

You are going to school me on the second amendment? OMG is that funny

I don't recall you ever making a contribution to second amendment discussions on this board
 
haymarket said:
Turtle - a serious and honest question for you: how many times has this happened where a member expresses serious doubts that you are what you say you are? This seems to happen to you on a regular basis.

Did you ever stop and ask yourself why this perception exists?

Did you ever stop and ask your self what is it about the way you present yourself here that causes people to doubt that you have the education and skills that you claim you possess?

The fact is that lawyers are perceived by many as educated people who are trained in the mechanics of research, case building and presentation of an argument based on evidence and proof. What is it about your approach here with seems to defy that belief about lawyers and their skills?

When you can honestly look at yourself, look at your posts and answer that question, you will see why you have this perception problem and why people doubt who you say you are.
Click to expand...

There is no such perception. Its a product of denial and dishonesty
 
TurtleDude said:
There is no such perception. Its a product of denial and dishonesty
Click to expand...

Your use of the word DENIAL is well suited to your post. You are in obvious denial as how others here think of you. How on the one hand can you trot out your ten thousand dollar challenge every couple of weeks for those who doubt you are who you claim you are and then pretend that you do not have a serious image problem here?

It all comes down to your posts Turtle. It is NOT your views. It is your nearly complete lack of any support for your views in the way of use of verifiable evidence, the historical record and building a case that attempts to convince people. You make no attempt at that in any way. It is as if you are used to people having to accept your pontifications as unchallenged fact without the mundane need to do the actual step by step work of establishing your case. People are conditioned to believe that lawyers know how to build a case. people are conditioned to believe that lawyers know how to use evidence. People are conditioned to believe that lawyers know how to research and use the record to bolster their arguments and positions. You seem to show no aptitude for any of these things. You publicly eschew them in favor of simple pontifications like Moses bringing down the tablets from the mountain top.

That is your central problem that causes so many here to publicly doubt you are who you claim to be or that you have the education or skills you claim to have.

You would do well to take a good long hard look at your style here and do some sober reflection upon it.

Who else here Turtle has this perception and believability problem that you seem to have with many other people?
 
Last edited:
TurtleDude said:
lets play who knows more about the labor movement and labor law.
Click to expand...

Why you do of course....you know everything...YOUR THE TURTLEDUDE...look up in the sky, its a bird, its a plane NOoooooooooooo....ITS SUPERTURDLEDUDE.....lol...
 
TurtleDude said:
One riot one ranger. Four or five extreme lefties really aren't a reliable trend
Click to expand...

You once again ignore the great majority of the country who do not agree with you that SS and Medicare are socialistic. What this shows is that your viewpoint is the extreme.
 
TurtleDude said:
envy is not a proper grounds for economic policies. a wage is nothing more than a company buying a commodity known as labor. If a company's profits double does that mean it should pay twice as much for energy or steel than the going rate? You have never chased me off of anything. I don't even listen to limbaugh but your rantings certainly show me who is successful in life

Lets play who is more educated. want a shot at the title?
Click to expand...

First of all, labor is not a commodity... At worst it's a service. Commodities harvested or collected as the fruits of labor. Follow that? Labor is what is used to obtain commodities. Labor is the result of living organisms. Commodities are owned. Humans, in this country cannot be owned, which is the end result of labor viewed as a commodity... Slavery, or wage slavery.

As for success... Define it...

Amazing the lengths you'll go to avoid discussing Gompers and Taft-Hartley, which you brought up. Freakin hilarious.
 
Catawba said:
You once again ignore the great majority of the country who do not agree with you that SS and Medicare are socialistic. What this shows is that your viewpoint is the extreme.
Click to expand...

How is that responsive to the post I made?
 
TurtleDude said:
you think your average postal worker or UAW can discuss Gompers or Reuters or the conflict between mainline labor and communist labor or the Taft-hartley act vs Norris Laguardia?
Click to expand...

You can toss that lawyer intellect BS of yours around all you want .

Bottom line; without the American workers what mainline labor do you have?
Without the American worker the Taft-hartley act vs Norris Laguardia would be good for what toleit paper?
 
Occam's Razor said:
First of all, labor is not a commodity... At worst it's a service. Commodities harvested or collected as the fruits of labor. Follow that? Labor is what is used to obtain commodities. Labor is the result of living organisms. Commodities are owned. Humans, in this country cannot be owned, which is the end result of labor viewed as a commodity... Slavery, or wage slavery.

As for success... Define it...

Amazing the lengths you'll go to avoid discussing Gompers and Taft-Hartley, which you brought up. Freakin hilarious.
Click to expand...

1) what is with your silly diversions? some made the claim that the average union member is more versed about labor law than labor lawyers. why should I discuss Taft-hartley? do you claim to be a labor lawer or a union member? its not material to this thread and I doubt you would understand the issue but it was designed to reign in the power unions got under the New Deal administration

2) Marx defined commodity to include labor. Labor, like energy, material, etc are items a manufacturer needs to produce a product. Its idiotic for a manufacturer to pay more for any of those items than the going market rate.
 
presluc said:
You can toss that lawyer intellect BS of yours around all you want .

Bottom line; without the American workers what mainline labor do you have?
Without the American worker the Taft-hartley act vs Norris Laguardia would be good for what toleit paper?
Click to expand...

you appear rather agitated. Corporations can tend to move to where labor is available. How about your working class heroes that you bray about?? Economic reality and economic power might not be comforting to those on the bottom of the totem pole but denying obvious realities are silly.


I am sorry that you don't like the golden rule-that being those who have the gold make the rules but ranting about it doesn't solve your obvious problems
 
TurtleDude said:
you keep attributing things to me that have no basis in fact.

I don't want less jobs, I want less government waste and less taxes. HOw does that decrease jobs?
Click to expand...

HOW DOES THAT INCREASE JOBS?

Money is money pal, I don't see less outsourcseing I see more.
Smaller government helps corporations and the rich, it does nothing for the working American.
What do the lower middle class and working poor and unemployed get from a smaller government less taxes ? lol,lol,lol
 
presluc said:
HOW DOES THAT INCREASE JOBS?

Money is money pal, I don't see less outsourcseing I see more.
Smaller government helps corporations and the rich, it does nothing for the working American.
What do the lower middle class and working poor and unemployed get from a smaller government less taxes ? lol,lol,lol
Click to expand...

well we know a few things

1) jacking up taxes on the rich won't increase jobs and the last I checked this thread was about the tax rates that were implemented by Bush as a reaction to the Clinton tax hikes and then extended by Obumble.

2) You labor under the idiotic delusion that more government actually helps the poor. What the poor get from more government is akin to what addicts get from Pushers.

but thanks for admitting that the rich really don't benefit as much from government as the poor and lower middle class. that bit of honesty is refreshing and is a major bitch slap to those who claim that the rich benefit from more and more government
 
TurtleDude said:
whatever, you can update me on the gunfights you have been through and your training but its a waste of time.
Click to expand...

I'm still here.
This country ever loses it's Capitalist government I'll still be here, but you and the boys at the top should be asking for a stronger bigger government not a smaller weaker one.
There's a lot of pissed off people out here.
 
TurtleDude said:
How is that responsive to the post I made?
Click to expand...

It disproves your claim that those that disagree with you are extremists, we are in fact the majority.
 
presluc said:
I'm still here.
This country ever loses it's Capitalist government I'll still be here, but you and the boys at the top should be asking for a stronger bigger government not a smaller weaker one.
There's a lot of pissed off people out here.
Click to expand...
ah the subtle threats-the masses will revolt!!

as i said earlier start your revolt on my property
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom