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Thread: What purpose did the tax cut for the wealthiest serve?

  1. #981
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    Re: What purpose did the tax cut for the wealthiest serve?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    what facts
    "If you want the tax burden to be more equal, earnings for EVERYONE must rise with rises in productivity (which we have) and rises in profits (which we have). The rise in productivity is almost exclusively the domain of the worker, any profits based on that should be passed to those responsible for it, period, not co-opted by those that control the flow of finances. High marginal tax rates on the wealthiest discourage this behavior. When taxes are in the 70%-90% range, directors and owners are less likely to steal 400% more on 104% rise in profits and instead return more of that to the worker rather than be taxed on it.

    The first part of the problem is that our current code only has six brackets. And the top bracket tops out at about $375k. Meaning someone that in today's economy is just doing pretty well is paying the same rate as the top one tenth of one percent, the 400 wealthiest holding 85% of the wealth. There should be 12-16 tax brackets.

    Current
    Head of Household
    Marginal Tax Rate...............Tax Brackets
    10.0%............................. $0 $11,95
    15.0% ............................. $11,950 $45,55
    25.0%............................. $45,550 $117,65
    28.0%............................. $117,650 $190,55
    33.0%............................. $190,550 $373,65
    35.0%............................. $373,650 and up"
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: What purpose did the tax cut for the wealthiest serve?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    Like what? Banking? The banking crisis started with government.
    No, the crisis started with corporations, banks among them, lobbying gov't for less restrictions and gov't obliged.

    What in the **** are you talking about? A living wage like I have said before is economically unsound. Its a liberal pipe dream, like the minimum wage was. They both assume far to much about the market without actually looking into those assumptions when going in.
    We gave our workers a hell of a living wage for 40 years... and the country was in great shape then...

    Sorry, not buying it.

    Well.. I guess I shouldn't say minimum wage went in without taking them into account. It damn well knew it would discriminate against low skill workers and it knew it would do nothing to raise quality of life. But all the same, the people that believe in what is it is sold as today believe in a pipe dream that never was and never will be.

    And I have no idea why its the responsibly of the rich to pay for the debt.
    The rest of us would gladly pay it down, most Americans are patriots. The only problem is, through a series of recessions, 90 years of inflation, outsourcing of jobs, lagging cost of living and benefit of productivity wage increases... the rest of us have no money to spare to do the right thing and pay down the debt.

    Corporations are the product of govt. Try your rant again after you figure that out.
    Don't condescend to me... boy. You don't know me, what I know or what I believe. You just have your partisan check list and standard dismissive replies. Which, of course, are old and tired. Of course corporations are a product of government... so?

    Taxing wealth is not the way to get wealth back in your hands. First..
    It's not my hands I want it in. I couldn't care less. But it must be put back into the economy... one way, or another. Anyone who is either Christian or a student of the Founders knows this.

    "Corporations are the product of govt. "
    You said that already... and again... so?

    Second, it called the market. Use it.
    Sure, just as soon as the market game stops being rigged. I'll jump right in.



    You do realize that is utter stupidity I hope. Even with the government helping in the creation of corporations what you get in your life is in your control.
    Sure, it's supposed to be. Tell that to the Enron, MCI and Tyco workers and investors that lost billions. If 85% of the wealth is in the top 1%... who do you think has the control?



    Get a clue...seriously.

    And your emotional arguments mean nothing. Use economic arguments please.
    Emotional? Sorry, my philosophies are born of the entire history of man and civilization and narrowly focused on the founders and voices of liberty... not partisan rhetoric.

  3. #983
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    Re: What purpose did the tax cut for the wealthiest serve?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    "If you want the tax burden to be more equal, earnings for EVERYONE must rise with rises in productivity (which we have) and rises in profits (which we have). The rise in productivity is almost exclusively the domain of the worker, any profits based on that should be passed to those responsible for it, period, not co-opted by those that control the flow of finances. High marginal tax rates on the wealthiest discourage this behavior. When taxes are in the 70%-90% range, directors and owners are less likely to steal 400% more on 104% rise in profits and instead return more of that to the worker rather than be taxed on it.

    The first part of the problem is that our current code only has six brackets. And the top bracket tops out at about $375k. Meaning someone that in today's economy is just doing pretty well is paying the same rate as the top one tenth of one percent, the 400 wealthiest holding 85% of the wealth. There should be 12-16 tax brackets.

    Current
    Head of Household
    Marginal Tax Rate...............Tax Brackets
    10.0%............................. $0 $11,95
    15.0% ............................. $11,950 $45,55
    25.0%............................. $45,550 $117,65
    28.0%............................. $117,650 $190,55
    33.0%............................. $190,550 $373,65
    35.0%............................. $373,650 and up"
    That is more opinion that is not supported by the facts you have posted

    high taxes on the rich do not pass profits to those who you claim make the profits



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    Re: What purpose did the tax cut for the wealthiest serve?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    That is more opinion that is not supported by the facts you have posted

    high taxes on the rich do not pass profits to those who you claim make the profits
    Thanks for your opinion!
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: What purpose did the tax cut for the wealthiest serve?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Thanks for your opinion!
    You are the one who howls about facts yet your facts don't support your opinions. Such as your unsupported claim here:

    the rise in productivity is almost exclusively the domain of the worker, any profits based on that should be passed to those responsible for it, period, not co-opted by those that control the flow of finances. High marginal tax rates on the wealthiest discourage this behavior. When taxes are in the 70%-90% range, directors and owners are less likely to steal 400% more on 104% rise in profits and instead return more of that to the worker rather than be taxed on it.


    Or this-true there are only 6 tax brackets. The assertion though is not supported


    The first part of the problem is that our current code only has six brackets



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    Re: What purpose did the tax cut for the wealthiest serve?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    many of them are deluded into thinking that more and more government handouts are GOOD for them

    just as junkies think more fixes are to their benefit
    Yeah and many CEO'S of corporations actualy believe they can count on the American consumer to buy only American.

    Just as drug pushers depend on the stupidity of Americans, and actualy think they will always benifit and never pay the consequences.
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    Re: What purpose did the tax cut for the wealthiest serve?

    Quote Originally Posted by presluc View Post
    Yeah and many CEO'S of corporations actualy believe they can count on the American consumer to buy only American.

    Just as drug pushers depend on the stupidity of Americans, and actualy think they will always benifit and never pay the consequences.
    really? You have any proof of that claim? you can speak for CEO's?



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    Re: What purpose did the tax cut for the wealthiest serve?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    what facts, he makes claims that confiscatory tax rates are good-that is not a fact, he is a classic wealth confiscating lefty who opines without proof
    What purpose did the tax cut for the wealthiest serve?-uswealthshare-jpg What purpose did the tax cut for the wealthiest serve?-historical-tax-rates-jpg

    First of all, I'm not a lefty, was raised a conservative (a real conservative, traditional conservative, not the hyper emo radicals we have now) and now want nothing to do with ANY corrupt party, left, right, or far right.

    Second, the graphs above are proof. If you need them explained to you, I'd be happy to. But I'll wait first to see how moronic your dismissal is first.

    Quote Originally Posted by X Factor View Post
    I KNEW it. If some people had their way, there would be no end to the tax burden, all the way up to 90% of someone's income. A lot of people (ok, on the left) deny that they want taxation to get up into the 70-90% range, which doesn't really follow. If someone believes higher taxes are the right answer, then it makes sense that that person would believe that the more taxation the better ~ which is pretty much exactly what this post argues.
    Personally, I'd rather not have the taxes at all. But, this is the system given to us by the banking trust almost a century ago. More troublesome than taxes is extreme avarice. It is, after all, one of the Christian deadly sins. This supposedly being a Christian nation and all... But I digress... When the top marginal tax rates are applied along 12-16 tax brackets the result is more equitable (let me know if you need that word explained to you) wealth distribution, as both the Bible and our Founders warn us about.

    Quote Originally Posted by upsideguy View Post
    We had a much healthier distribution of income/wealth when we had higher marginal rates.

    With high marginal rates, business owners and investors have a greater incentive to reinvest in a business (capital and labor), as the government is essentially subsidizing that reinvestment and less incentive to take cash out of the business in the form of salary, where it will be taxed.

    We should have high marginal rates on very high income and low capital gains rates, again to encourage long-term investment and long-term thinking.

    Funny, that the middle class began eroding away once we started whacking away at high marginal rates? We can not have a strong economy without a strong middle class.
    EXACTLY! And the graphs bear that out (PROOF). Well said!

    Quote Originally Posted by X Factor View Post
    What's the point of investing in business and jobs, if you're not allowed to make money on it, or have to give most of it to the government? Let's be honest, you all are not concerned with businesses or investors, those are the bad guys, right? This is simply about, what you believe, to be a "healthier" redistribution of wealth (as upsideguy pretty much said in his post).
    This is such a stupid all or nothing argument. Make all the money you want, never stopped anyone in the 40s-80s. You are trying to say that the 70-90% applies to their whole income instead of the actual marginal rate. If you are making more than $40m a year, you are steeped in avarice and the "Christian" thing to do is help you save your mortal soul.

    Religious gobbledygook aside... the reason it's a sin is that it takes capital out of the system and concentrates it into the hands of a few. Thus limiting commerce among the many. This is a historic constant.

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    Excellent point, the evil of the current system is that the politicians who buy the votes of people like OR and Catawba have no incentive to stop that buying until the rates hit 100% on the top brackets. as long a they can pander to a majority of the voters who do not pay the top rates, they have no limit until 100% on the top brackets. NONE of the wealth confiscaters have ever addressed that point and one has publicly admitted that the wealth of the rich is held completely at the whim of the masses and if the masses decide to impose a 100% tax on anyone making more than 200K, 400K etc its ok with him and PROPER
    Now you're just making sh*t up.

    What the tax brackets should look like..

    6.0%............................... $0 $11,95
    8.0% .............................. $11,950 $45,550
    12.0%............................. $45,550 $117,650
    15.0%............................. $117,650 $190,550
    18.0%............................. $190,550 $373,650
    30.0%............................. $373,650 $500,000
    35.0%............................. $500,001 $750,000
    40.0%............................. $750,001 $2,000,000
    45.0%............................. $2,000,001 5,000,000
    50.0%............................. $5,000,001 10,000,000
    60.0%............................. $10,000,001 $20,000,000
    70.0%............................. $20,000,001 $40,000,000
    90.0%............................. $40,000,001 and up

    Does it look like I have those making up to half a million at anywhere near 100%? The FACT is that I have them at a lower rate than the actual rate now. Talk about your emotional kneejerking hyperbole! ...Also..

    I don't vote for status quo two party idiocy and I've never taken a dime from the government. Bet you all happily cashed and spent your stimulus checks though didn't ya? So... you're idiot assumption is just that.



    Quote Originally Posted by David D. View Post
    That's never going to happen TD, X Factor, you're exaggerating.

    Our Congress is made up of (mostly) millionaires. Why would they vote for all of their income to be taxed away?
    First of all, if we have ELECTED PUBLIC SERVANTS making over 40m a year, we have serious conflict of interest problems. No one is saying take "ALL" of anyone's income. Not even close.

    Take a look at the graphs, then take a look at the tax rate I've proposed over that we have now. Those in public service and everyone else actually keeps more of their money up to half a million.

    All these hand wringing attempts to color marginal rates as confiscating "ALL" of someone's wealth either shows extreme ignorance, or extreme arrogance. As far as I'm concerned, lumping the middle class in the same tax bracket as those earning hundreds of millions of dollars a year is criminal.

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    Re: What purpose did the tax cut for the wealthiest serve?

    extreme avarice=buying votes so you can gain office using the money of others

    there should be no such thing as tax brackets. that encourages politicians to pander to the lower brackets by promising them more spending paid by increasing the rates on the top brackets



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    Re: What purpose did the tax cut for the wealthiest serve?

    Quote Originally Posted by presluc View Post
    Yeah and many CEO'S of corporations actualy believe they can count on the American consumer to buy only American.

    Just as drug pushers depend on the stupidity of Americans, and actualy think they will always benifit and never pay the consequences.
    Actually, they don't. They learned that lesson in the 70s and 80s with Japanese cars. That's why the free trade lobbying went into full swing, so that these corps aren't dependent on either American workers nor American markets, but rather, globalizing it all and leaving us with no jobs and few products made in America.

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