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Thread: What purpose did the tax cut for the wealthiest serve?

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    Re: What purpose did the tax cut for the wealthiest serve?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    true

    I noted he didn't answer my question as to whether the suppliers of other commodities should be paid a bonus beyond the contract price for the steel or energy they supply

    Communitarianism sounds good in the ivory tower, in the real world its about as sensible as trying to fight fair with a mugger
    TurtleDude, sorry for not answering all of your questions promptly - I was on my mobile device (and mobile).

    I will respond by saying your question is completely nonsensical in the context of this discussion. NO - I would not pay the provider of the steel or energy a bonus because they are commodities.

    My whole point is that Labor =/= Commodity.

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    Re: What purpose did the tax cut for the wealthiest serve?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Is there no one among those who defend the wealth concentrated at the top, answer this question:

    Tell us how a consumer economy can prosper when most of the wealth is concentrated at the top?
    70 years of progressive income taxes has insulated the very richest people. that is why many of them support a system that creates entitlement addicts sapped of ambition

    you have failed to understand a progressive tax system creates rich elites who use that system to buy public office and the wealth that comes with it. massive taxes create massive government and massive government creates massive power and wealth for those who run it. want more diversity of wealth and power? seek to decentralize government and dissipate federal power and control



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    Re: What purpose did the tax cut for the wealthiest serve?

    Quote Originally Posted by David D. View Post
    Henrin - As a company grows and becomes more profitable, I think it would be great if some of that wealth could be shared amongst the employees who helped grow the company.

    After all, they helped created it. Right?

    Why shouldn't they justifiably see any of that payoff?

    And I'm not talking communism here and saying that all workers are the same. If an employee did a crappy job, fire him. If someone can't provide a good quality of labor, fire him. But if your employee did the job you asked of him, and your company reaped profits as a result, why not share a portion of it?
    Because there is no reason to do so. They're already giving them part with the payment they already decided to give them. The payment they receive is not decided on how much success the company is having but by the fancy of the employers of the market. It hardly matters the relationship of who did what in the earning of that profit, it only matters who has the property that is being put out.
    Last edited by Henrin; 09-06-11 at 08:51 PM.

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    Re: What purpose did the tax cut for the wealthiest serve?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Is there no one among those who defend the wealth concentrated at the top, answer this question:

    Tell us how a consumer economy can prosper when most of the wealth is concentrated at the top?

    Such a consumer driven economy will not prosper ... interests will pay for the opinion, that there is prosperity. See Americas economy.


    www.tobinproject.org/conference_economic/papers/BankFailures_ChartwithComments_Moss.pdf
    What purpose did the tax cut for the wealthiest serve?-bank-20failures-jpg
    If everyone is thinking alike, then somebody isn't thinking. Patton
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    Re: What purpose did the tax cut for the wealthiest serve?

    Moderator's Warning:
    What purpose did the tax cut for the wealthiest serve? Some of you are getting too free with the personal stuff... everybody chill, discuss the topic not each other.

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    Re: What purpose did the tax cut for the wealthiest serve?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    Because there is no reason to do so. They're already giving them part with the payment they already decided to give them. The payment they receive is not decided on how much success the company is having but by the fancy of the employers of the market. It hardly matters the relationship of who did what in the earning of that profit, it only matters who has the property that is being put out.
    Henrin - I understand the words you are saying, and your point you are making, but I think that scenario eventually leads to an inevitable stratification of wealth, as the only people who reap the benefits of any positive value gains of a company are the employers and not the employees.

    And when you have only the employers reaping the value of what is created by their employees, and continually working down their wages to whatever dirt cheap price they can find in India or whatever, the workers will eventually become poor and will demand that their government protect them and give them welfare, ect, ect.

    This creates the need for BIG GOVERNMENT. That's why I referred to TurtleDude as his own worst enemy.
    Last edited by David D.; 09-06-11 at 09:08 PM.

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    Re: What purpose did the tax cut for the wealthiest serve?

    Quote Originally Posted by David D. View Post
    Henrin - I understand the words you are saying, and your point you are making, but I think that scenario eventually leads to an inevitable stratification of wealth, as the only people who reap the benefits of any positive value gains of a company are the employers and not the employees.

    And when you have only the employers reaping the value of what is created by their employees, and continually working down their wages to whatever dirt cheap price they can find in India or whatever, the workers will eventually become poor and will demand that their government protect them and give them welfare, ect, ect.

    People like you create the need for BIG GOVERNMENT. That's why I say TurtleDude is his own worst enemy, because he is.
    You are wrong. If my company engages in the warm fuzziness you want it will go out of business and those workers will lose their jobs or have to work for lower wages because the demand for their labor goes down and with that wages.

    economic reality and the warm fuzzies are like count dracula and sunlight



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    Re: What purpose did the tax cut for the wealthiest serve?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    You are wrong. If my company engages in the warm fuzziness you want it will go out of business and those workers will lose their jobs or have to work for lower wages because the demand for their labor goes down and with that wages.

    economic reality and the warm fuzzies are like count dracula and sunlight
    TD- I'm working within the realm of 'within reason' when I talk about profit sharing amongst the employees who helped make the company profitable through their hard work.

    Sometimes the employees will see some profit in the form of higher salary, sometimes they won't, like when the employer thinks the company will need to keep some of that money for future investment in the company, ect. Or when the company's overall profit trend is headed south and they just had one good month, but it's not the norm.

    This is why you need a strong company leader (who will have the highest salary of all).

    You can't treat labor like a commodity and never share any of the new value created by the employees with the employees. That's all. It leads to bad things, namely inevitable wealth stratification.

    Reasonable?
    Last edited by David D.; 09-06-11 at 09:23 PM.

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    Re: What purpose did the tax cut for the wealthiest serve?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    count dracula and sunlight
    Both of these things exist, by the way.

    One's a delicious cereal and the other is the "total frequency spectrum of electromagnetic radiation given off by the Sun" (to quote Wikipedia).

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    Re: What purpose did the tax cut for the wealthiest serve?

    Quote Originally Posted by David D. View Post
    TD- I'm working within the realm of 'within reason' when I talk about profit sharing amongst the employees. Sometimes the employees will see some profit in the form of higher salary, sometimes they won't when the employer thinks the company will need to keep some of that money for future investment in the company, ect.

    I'm just saying that you can't treat labor like a commodity and never share any of the new value created by the employees with the employees. That's all.

    Reasonable?

    Again, economic reality has proven you wrong. now if higher than market wages result in superior productivity or if profit sharing results in higher work standards than things change

    now if you are a laborer-say at the USPS and the USPS is losing 9 billion should you expect to give up half your wages?



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