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Thread: What purpose did the tax cut for the wealthiest serve?

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    Re: What purpose did the tax cut for the wealthiest serve?

    Quote Originally Posted by LesGovt View Post
    Are you saying that you would not vote your conscience if you were a Representative?
    Who cares how much integrity I would have if I theoretically was elected into public office? I fail to see the point you're trying to make.

    Quote Originally Posted by LesGovt View Post
    Can you show the quid pro quo?
    You want me to prove what dollar amount it would take to sway a congressperson? I don't know, Les, that's kind of a ridiculous question to ask. There's literally probably about a thousand different factors that would determine that. Again, you're missing the point.

    Let me put it more clearly. I believe that Congresspeople at times receive large campaign contributions from wealthy donors and that they will at times vote in accord with their donors interests to (a) say "thanks" for the contribution and (b) say "hey, maybe contribute to my next run for office".
    Last edited by David D.; 08-25-11 at 01:12 AM.

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    Re: What purpose did the tax cut for the wealthiest serve?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    facts? Which facts would those be exactly?

    Like the one i commented on from you?

    I suspect a first grader can tell you what is wrong with your "fact".
    Can you? Are you aware of how the market works to even put up a good counterargument that would seem it could be feasible and yet be still wrong? You see I have seen many people try to counter that fact with many things and while I had the pleasure of dealing with deniers of truth that actually know economics I have spent far to much of my time dealing with just idiots.
    Last edited by Henrin; 08-25-11 at 04:07 AM.

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    Re: What purpose did the tax cut for the wealthiest serve?

    Quote Originally Posted by David D. View Post
    Who cares how much integrity I would have if I theoretically was elected into public office? I fail to see the point you're trying to make.
    Earlier you stated that our Representatives accepted campaign funds from wealthy people and that the money talked. The implication is that Congressmen will vote a certain way not based on principle, but based on a campaign "bribe." If you are accusing them of being unprincipled, I was just curious if you too would be unprincipled if you were elected.

    Quote Originally Posted by David D. View Post
    You want me to prove what dollar amount it would take to sway a congressperson? I don't know, Les, that's kind of a ridiculous question to ask. There's literally probably about a thousand different factors that would determine that. Again, you're missing the point.

    Let me put it more clearly. I believe that Congresspeople at times receive large campaign contributions from wealthy donors and that they will at times vote in accord with their donors interests to (a) say "thanks" for the contribution and (b) say "hey, maybe contribute to my next run for office".
    Here you again prove what I was asking about. "Congresspeople at times receive large campaign contribtions from wealthy donors and that they will at times vote in accord with their donors interests..." You are saying that Congressment will be unprincipled "at times" and vote against their consciences in order to get more money from the contributor. That is a quid pro quo. This is why I asked if you had proof. I did not ask you how much it would take to get the Congressman to perform a quid pro quo. I asked for proof that it happens. And, if it happens to Congressmen where they give up their principles to vote for something their contributor wants, then the question is appropriate as to whether you would.

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    Re: What purpose did the tax cut for the wealthiest serve?

    Quote Originally Posted by LesGovt View Post
    Earlier you stated that our Representatives accepted campaign funds from wealthy people and that the money talked. The implication is that Congressmen will vote a certain way not based on principle, but based on a campaign "bribe." If you are accusing them of being unprincipled, I was just curious if you too would be unprincipled if you were elected.
    To answer on a personal note, yes I'd like to think that I would maintain my own personal principles and beliefs if I were to be elected into public office.



    Quote Originally Posted by LesGovt View Post
    I asked for proof that it happens
    Rod Blagojevich - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Last edited by David D.; 08-25-11 at 09:00 AM.

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    Re: What purpose did the tax cut for the wealthiest serve?

    Quote Originally Posted by lpast
    It comes with the ability to pay....there are many so called conservatives on here who say there should not be a minimum wage...tell me how can a single person live on 7.00 an hour...even in the cheapest cost of living area in the country.....The top pay the most because they have it and family of 4 making two minimum wage salaries cant MAKE it...they still pay sales tax and all the other fees...
    Well, in my world, "minimum" doesn't have the same meaning as "living". Are you saying a 16 year old working at McDonalds should earn a "living" wage? Having said that, should anyone working there make a "living" wage? When push comes to shove, they could take the illegal Mexican model and just pack into a small apartment like sardines.

    By the way. Do you know how many people making minimum wage are raising families on it? Less than one-sixth. Hardly a concern.

    Guess they shoulda thought about that before they fumbled through high school getting stoned.

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    Re: What purpose did the tax cut for the wealthiest serve?

    Quote Originally Posted by David D. View Post
    To answer on a personal note, yes I'd like to think that I would maintain my own personal principles and beliefs if I were to be elected into public office.
    If Congressmen would accept a quid pro quo, but you would not, why are they different from you?

    Where is the quid pro quo with wealthy businessmen attempting to "bribe" Blagojevich with campaign funds? I don't see the comparison. If you are now saying that there are corrupt politicians, then I will agree with you. There are corrupt janitors, high school teachers, bankers, truck drivers, and, yes, politicians. That does not mean that most are or even many are. Blago was the one who wanted others to "pay to play." It wasn't wealthy people seeking to play by paying.
    Last edited by LesGovt; 08-25-11 at 10:13 AM.

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    Re: What purpose did the tax cut for the wealthiest serve?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    Can you? Are you aware of how the market works to even put up a good counterargument that would seem it could be feasible and yet be still wrong? You see I have seen many people try to counter that fact with many things and while I had the pleasure of dealing with deniers of truth that actually know economics I have spent far to much of my time dealing with just idiots.
    I can only conclude from your comments that you are intentionally being as obtuse as humanly possible to avoid facing the reality of the complete ridiculousness of your statement that 7 bucks an hour is the same as 50 bucks an hour.

    A minimum wage of 7.00 dollars is no different than a minimum wage of 50.00 dollars
    Last edited by haymarket; 08-25-11 at 10:46 AM.
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    Re: What purpose did the tax cut for the wealthiest serve?

    I think you're being obtuse with regards to macroeconomic impact. Seriously, what do you think will happen if minimum wage suddenly increased to 50 bucks an hour? Minimum wage is a price floor. If you raise the floor, everything above the floor goes up too. See where I'm getting at?

    I know even you can't possibly think that minimum wage can go up while everything else stays the same.

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    Re: What purpose did the tax cut for the wealthiest serve?

    Quote Originally Posted by LesGovt View Post
    If Congressmen would accept a quid pro quo, but you would not, why are they different from you?
    Les, this is not a strong argument. I could easily just have said that perhaps I would accept a quid pro quo; maybe vote to favor deregulation of a certain industry’s law with the expectation that when I leave office I will be handed a nice upper-level position in that industry, ensuring my family’s security - who knows? What value does this add to the discussion?

    I'm just one person out of millions and millions of people who could potentially serve in Congress, with each person having has his/her own story, own background, own motives, own goals, own values, own morals, ect. That's why I said what matter does it make? Every person is different.



    Quote Originally Posted by LesGovt View Post
    Where is the quid pro quo with wealthy businessmen attempting to "bribe" Blagojevich with campaign funds? I don't see the comparison. If you are now saying that there are corrupt politicians, then I will agree with you. There are corrupt janitors, high school teachers, bankers, truck drivers, and, yes, politicians. That does not mean that most are or even many are. Blago was the one who wanted others to "pay to play." It wasn't wealthy people seeking to play by paying.
    Good point about Blago.

    Here are some more cases below, and remember, these were just the folks that were caught:

    The Political Graveyard: Politicians in Trouble or Disgrace: Bribery
    Last edited by David D.; 08-25-11 at 11:51 AM.

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    Re: What purpose did the tax cut for the wealthiest serve?

    Quote Originally Posted by David D. View Post
    Les, this is not a strong argument. I could easily just have said that perhaps I would accept a quid pro quo; maybe vote to favor deregulation of a certain industry’s law with the expectation that when I leave office I will be handed a nice upper-level position in that industry, ensuring my family’s security - who knows? What value does this add to the discussion?
    The purpose of the question is not necessarily to make an argument. It is more to get you to think about what you are saying. I would hope you would not succumb to a "bribe." I would hope that you would vote your conscience. On the other hand, you could be unprincipled and would take any offer that came your way. I would hope the latter would not be correct. Now, if you would not commit a quid pro quo, are our Congresspeople really less principled than you are? I doubt that. Could a person take a "bribe" in order to get a position later on? Sure. Does that happen often? I doubt it.

    Quote Originally Posted by David D. View Post
    I'm just one person out of millions and millions of people who could potentially serve in Congress, with each person having has his/her own story, own background, own motives, own goals, own values, own morals, ect. That's why I said what matter does it make? Every person is different.
    And the great vast majority of anything is principled. The small minority are not. That is not exclusive to politics or wealthy people or businessmen.

    Quote Originally Posted by David D. View Post
    Good point about Blago.

    Here are some more cases below, and remember, these were just the folks that were caught:

    The Political Graveyard: Politicians in Trouble or Disgrace: Bribery
    I'll check this out. My guess is that there are very few cases versus the number of different people who served in Congress during the years provided by your link.
    Last edited by LesGovt; 08-25-11 at 01:52 PM.

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