View Poll Results: Should the U.S. have a debt ceiling?

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Thread: Should The U.S. Have A Debt Ceiling?

  1. #11
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    Re: Should The U.S. Have A Debt Ceiling?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kernel Sanders View Post
    Yes, since it is part of the mechanism which allows the Treasury to provide the funds specified by the federal budget without forcing congress to individually authorize bond issues in addition to the passing budget.

    It's just an administrative tool which has only been hijacked for political purposes due to its name.
    Regardless of WHY it was hijacked for political purposes, the fact remains that it was. And that's unacceptable, and antithetical to good governance.

    Furthermore, we don't need to use it as an administrative tool in order to avoid authorizing individual bonds. Our nation didn't have it until World War I...and no other nation in the world has a debt ceiling at all (except for Denmark, which only has it in theory). It's just assumed that when Congress authorizes the Treasury to spend a certain amount of money and collect a certain amount of taxes, that the difference will need to be borrowed.

    The debt ceiling is an entirely redundant mechanism. If the government doesn't want to borrow so much money, it can vote to cut spending and/or raise taxes at any time.
    Last edited by Kandahar; 07-30-11 at 07:51 PM.
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  2. #12
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    Re: Should The U.S. Have A Debt Ceiling?

    Quote Originally Posted by pbrauer View Post
    So you want the President and Congress to authorize expenditures and have no way of paying for them? That doesn't seem very smart to me.
    I want the President and Congress prevented from authorizing expenditures they have no way of paying. That is very smart. What's stupid and moronic is a government which has a blank check to spend taxpayers money. I don't think there's a word in a the English language that can express that kind of stupidity enough.
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


  3. #13
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    Re: Should The U.S. Have A Debt Ceiling?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    I want the President and Congress prevented from authorizing expenditures they have no way of paying.
    Fine, how do you propose to stop them from spending too much? The debt ceiling tactic is a colossal failure.

    That is very smart. What's stupid and moronic is a government which has a blank check to spend taxpayers money. I don't think there's a word in a the English language that can express that kind of stupidity enough.
    According to the Constitution, the House has the purse strings and unless a veto is overridden by Congress the spending becomes law.

    Are second guessing the Founding Fathers?


  4. #14
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    Re: Should The U.S. Have A Debt Ceiling?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    Not only should there be a debt ceiling, but it should be very difficult to increase. Of course there should also be a balanced budget amendment which forces government to live within its means.
    I'm one of those people who thinks that it's a better idea to have a balanced budget over the business cycle (Keynes suggested that the government save during good times and spend during the bad), rather than on an annual basis.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
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  5. #15
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    Re: Should The U.S. Have A Debt Ceiling?

    Quote Originally Posted by pbrauer View Post
    Fine, how do you propose to stop them from spending too much? The debt ceiling tactic is a colossal failure.
    How can not raising the debt ceiling be a failure if it's never been tried?

    Quote Originally Posted by pbrauer View Post
    According to the Constitution, the House has the purse strings and unless a veto is overridden by Congress the spending becomes law.

    Are second guessing the Founding Fathers?
    The constitution says nothing about borrowing trillions from foreign countries. Most of what's done in the U.S. Congress and by the Presidents these days is not supported constitutionally. You must be quoting John Kerry... who apparently had a seance in the Capitol and was told by the ghosts of our founding fathers that cut cap and balance is a bad thing. I mean... a balanced budget? What a radical and excessive idea!!

    Don't start quoting the founder when it's not your forte. Stick with the liberal progressive talking points from DailyKos and MoveOn.org and don't go off script.
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


  6. #16
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    Re: Should The U.S. Have A Debt Ceiling?

    yes to the ceiling
    based on a percentage of government income...Very smart people will have to determine this percentage.
    All waste (wars) must be stopped.
    If we have less crime, then we must have fewer cops.
    And, we must know why we have the less crime...People must be placed where they can do some good..
    A "balanced budget", at this time is a poor idea....
    Why ?
    Take an uneducated man, a young uneducated man as an example.
    His income is $1,000 per year; but his potential, with $10,000 of proper training , is $10,000 per year...
    A nation can be the same way, but with a "balanced budget", it will stay poor...
    Needless to say, this "proper training" has to be done most carefully.

  7. #17
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    Re: Should The U.S. Have A Debt Ceiling?

    Yes, we should; and it should be $5.00.

  8. #18
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    Re: Should The U.S. Have A Debt Ceiling?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    How can not raising the debt ceiling be a failure if it's never been tried?
    It's a failure because it's NEVER stopped spending. The way to stop spending is with budget battles. It's simply wrong for the President and Congress to authorize spending and then turnaround say you can't borrow money to pay for it.

    The constitution says nothing about borrowing trillions from foreign countries. Most of what's done in the U.S. Congress and by the Presidents these days is not supported constitutionally. You must be quoting John Kerry... who apparently had a seance in the Capitol and was told by the ghosts of our founding fathers that cut cap and balance is a bad thing. I mean... a balanced budget? What a radical and excessive idea!!

    Don't start quoting the founder when it's not your forte. Stick with the liberal progressive talking points from DailyKos and MoveOn.org and don't go off script.
    An amendment to the Constitution ultimately requires 3/4 or 38 states to vote for it, so how does the House Bill ensure this? Long answer: It doesn't, Cut, Cap and Balance is nothing more than politics.


  9. #19
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    Re: Should The U.S. Have A Debt Ceiling?

    cut cap and balance is where we will end up

    maybe not because we want to.

    but because we will get to the point where there is no choice.

  10. #20
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    Re: Should The U.S. Have A Debt Ceiling?

    Quote Originally Posted by pbrauer View Post
    It's a failure because it's NEVER stopped spending. The way to stop spending is with budget battles. It's simply wrong for the President and Congress to authorize spending and then turnaround say you can't borrow money to pay for it.
    The obvious (and I use that term loosely since I have to take account of who I'm speaking with here) then way to control spending is to not authorize it. Rubio was 100% correct on the Senate floor when he said history has proven, give government the ability to spend beyond their means and they will. Therefore a balanced budget amendment and a ceiling cap on spending is the only way to control the amount of spending such that, government doesn't borrow more than it can pay back.

    I'm glad you agree with me.


    Quote Originally Posted by pbrauer View Post
    An amendment to the Constitution ultimately requires 3/4 or 38 states to vote for it, so how does the House Bill ensure this? Long answer: It doesn't, Cut, Cap and Balance is nothing more than politics.
    It will take however long it will take... it's what we in the business world call... a "long term goal". If it takes 2 years or it takes 12 years it must be done.
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


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