View Poll Results: Are seniors that use SS one of these...

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Thread: Are Seniors Lazy Parasites

  1. #121
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    Re: Are Seniors Lazy Parasites

    FYI. Vance Mack's anecdotal evidence is pretty accurate. Is it the majority of folks who are on SS and Medicare? No. But the numbers are pretty significant. The problem with these folks is there is neither any motivation to come off, nor is their adequate treatment provided. When you have a heroin addict, sending them to rehab for 30 days is a failure in the making. Guess what? You'll end up sending them to rehab for 30 days 6 MORE times after a couple of ER visits for ODs... or after they spend time in jail for some sort of criminal activity. All at the taxpayers expense. No one wants to make the hard choices to solve the problem; folks just want to band-aid it or pretend it doesn't exist. This is why I support drug/alcohol screens for folks on SS/Welfare/Medicare/Medicaid. If you have a drug/alcohol problem and you WANT help, I support the government supporting this kind of help, in a rehab that can actually do this. Not some 30 day detox. If they don't want help... that's fine, too. But if that's the case, they get NO SS/Welfare/Medicare/Medicaid. And, I do not support unlimited rehab visits, either. These folks are not the majority of people, not even close, but they are milking the system with issues that could be dealt with, if they choose. And if they do, I support government assistance. And if they don't they should get NONE.

    I've presented this plan before and it is part of my overall plan to resolve the nation's health care issues and create more financial stability.
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  2. #122
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    Re: Are Seniors Lazy Parasites

    What part of SS being an investment is hard for some people to understand? People put money into this system, largely against their will but also with the promise that it would be some support for later on. It was given with the knowledge that we are a hard working society and we want to take care of our elderly, after they have put in their work.

    SS has been eroded because successive administrations and congress members have voted to take money out of it for diversion to other projects. The money should have been made sacrosanct from the start. If a bank did this to your investment and couldn't cover the return funds, the bank would get sued or they would go under as every member would withdraw its investments. Yet it's okay for government to do it, and sometimes for completely arbitrary purposes.

    People are entitled to this money. I agree reforms are needed - such as not letting the government touch this money - but the money MUST be there when they retire, as promised. It's not selfish or "liberal" to require this. It's getting what you are already owed - it's YOUR money. That's why it's called an entitlement payment. You are entitled to get it, and they are required to give it to you.

    As for welfare and other social services... those are more up for debate. I find myself agreeing more and more with drug testing. But I agree with CC that the rehab offered must be effective, otherwise people will be put through a harrowing ordeal that is not ultimately helping them.

  3. #123
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    Re: Are Seniors Lazy Parasites

    Quote Originally Posted by Temporal View Post
    What part of SS being an investment is hard for some people to understand? People put money into this system, largely against their will but also with the promise that it would be some support for later on. It was given with the knowledge that we are a hard working society and we want to take care of our elderly, after they have put in their work.

    SS has been eroded because successive administrations and congress members have voted to take money out of it for diversion to other projects. The money should have been made sacrosanct from the start. If a bank did this to your investment and couldn't cover the return funds, the bank would get sued or they would go under as every member would withdraw its investments. Yet it's okay for government to do it, and sometimes for completely arbitrary purposes.

    People are entitled to this money. I agree reforms are needed - such as not letting the government touch this money - but the money MUST be there when they retire, as promised. It's not selfish or "liberal" to require this. It's getting what you are already owed - it's YOUR money. That's why it's called an entitlement payment. You are entitled to get it, and they are required to give it to you.

    As for welfare and other social services... those are more up for debate. I find myself agreeing more and more with drug testing. But I agree with CC that the rehab offered must be effective, otherwise people will be put through a harrowing ordeal that is not ultimately helping them.
    This does not consider the insolvency of the entitlement systems, nor does it justify taking the earnings out of the pocket of workers for a faulty investment that can be done by the workers themselves. We're simply paying the overhead costs of a middle man to ensure a standard retirement account (a standard retirement plan which is the worst compared to any other private IRA or 401K). The idea of a lockbox hasn't been true since the 1960s, and is frankly irrelevant in the face of massive demographic changes. You ask why is it so hard for some people to understand the idea of SS as an investment. I ask why is it hard to understand the fact that three workers cannot comfortably pay for the entitlements of one retiree?

    An investment savvy banker or accountant would surely not rely on an "investment" called social security, if it ever is considered an investment. The money taken out of a worker's paycheck over the entire course of their working life can be doubled, tripled, and even quadrupled with the compounded interest that defines the private retirement plans.

    Consider the amount I pay (and my employer pays) for my social security from the age of 20 to the age of 65. Then, consider how much I will likely see in returns from this sort of system (remind yourself that in due time, I will receive substantially less in the future while paying more in the present as opposed to current recipients). Then, take that investment and compare it to your average mutual fund account over the same time period. If I started at 20 with an IRA or a mutual fund, I could likely be a millionaire when I retire. Yet, after all the contributions made to the SS "trust fund," I'll likely see a measly 20-25K a year payment from the government. There's no serious compounded interest in a social security investment. It's just a wasted entitlement.

  4. #124
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    Re: Are Seniors Lazy Parasites

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    FYI. Vance Mack's anecdotal evidence is pretty accurate. Is it the majority of folks who are on SS and Medicare? No. But the numbers are pretty significant. The problem with these folks is there is neither any motivation to come off, nor is their adequate treatment provided. When you have a heroin addict, sending them to rehab for 30 days is a failure in the making. Guess what? You'll end up sending them to rehab for 30 days 6 MORE times after a couple of ER visits for ODs... or after they spend time in jail for some sort of criminal activity. All at the taxpayers expense. No one wants to make the hard choices to solve the problem; folks just want to band-aid it or pretend it doesn't exist. This is why I support drug/alcohol screens for folks on SS/Welfare/Medicare/Medicaid. If you have a drug/alcohol problem and you WANT help, I support the government supporting this kind of help, in a rehab that can actually do this. Not some 30 day detox. If they don't want help... that's fine, too. But if that's the case, they get NO SS/Welfare/Medicare/Medicaid. And, I do not support unlimited rehab visits, either. These folks are not the majority of people, not even close, but they are milking the system with issues that could be dealt with, if they choose. And if they do, I support government assistance. And if they don't they should get NONE.

    I've presented this plan before and it is part of my overall plan to resolve the nation's health care issues and create more financial stability.
    I certianly like this plan and see the merits of it.. I do however have a few questions??

    What if the person in question has no drug or alcohol history?? Would they still have to submit to testing??

    What about patients of medical treatment, that are on medications for life?? Some people are on pain killers for life, others are on blood thinners, some are on heart medications?? Would these people have to submit??

    Does the reason someone is on SS or medicare or medicaid have any bearing on on these tests?? Someone with down syndrome perhaps?? Severly Autistic?? Any other affliction??

    The issue that seems to be missed is that most and most by a tremendous margin are on SS and medicare or medicaid for a reason.. Not because they want to be.. It seems unfair to require drug screens and alcohol tests that most likely many of these people will fail anyways because of the meds they are on..

    Another thought that is never considered is what exactly makes someone unable to work?? Let's consider for a moment someone that is on blood thinners but otherwise for the most part healthy.. Depending on how high the INR has to be, but for this discussion we well say between 2.5 and 3.5, which is pretty high.. A simple nose bleed can become deadly rather quickly.. A simply papercut could also become a serious issue.. No medical insurance company is going to touch them with a 50 foot pole.. Most employers won't higher them because of the possible liability.. Even to be a greeter at a Walmart..

    So?? What happens to such a person?? This isn't really to you CC, but it sickens me to see the number of people here that simply think people are lazy and want to be on SS.. I am sure there is some fraud out there.. There is fraud in anything.. But I never hear anyone condemn banks or bank customers because some people rob banks..

    Everyone needs to stop and consider why people are on SS and medicare.. It is either because they are old and retired or forced out of the work force..

    Again, that wasn't to you CC.. I am just trying to make a point here..

    Another note people might want to consider..

    Daily Kos: $22 trillion Social Security surplus revealed on C-SPAN
    Last edited by DemonMyst; 07-30-11 at 07:09 AM.

  5. #125
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    Re: Are Seniors Lazy Parasites

    Quote Originally Posted by DemonMyst View Post
    Another note people might want to consider..

    Daily Kos: $22 trillion Social Security surplus revealed on C-SPAN
    That $22 trillion is not in cash, nor is it in value added income producing assets.
    It is in special government bonds, where the money is borrowed by Congress to spend as they wish.

    It is a false surplus.
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    Re: Are Seniors Lazy Parasites

    This is a horrible thing to say but Ima do it anyway.


    When I am striken with a horrible illness that is mostly terminal, I'm just gonna go. I'll take a few pills and a little help from the hospital, but I'm not gonna do millions in chemo, surgery and hospital stays. I'm only 40, but I've made my choices (I smoke and drink) and I have been blessed beyond anything I could possibly deserve. An old person terrified of death is a sad thing in my book. There are children who starve at age 3 having never seen real food. 50,000 children die every day from lack of clean food and water. I've lived free and done what I wanted for a long time (all of my 40) and I just cannot see going in an economic scream. I don't understand blessed mature adults crying about million dollar treatments while children who've had nothing starve.

    I don't wanna die. My days are wonderful and I want them to never end. But, by 40 or so at least, people should be comfortable with their lives. They should have their things settled, their friends made, their famly aware and their soul established. I do not get why some go out the way they came in, as if they never saw nothin'.

  7. #127
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    Re: Are Seniors Lazy Parasites

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    That $22 trillion is not in cash, nor is it in value added income producing assets.
    It is in special government bonds, where the money is borrowed by Congress to spend as they wish.

    It is a false surplus.
    Prove it.. I don't see no links in your post??

  8. #128
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    Re: Are Seniors Lazy Parasites

    Quote Originally Posted by DemonMyst View Post
    I certianly like this plan and see the merits of it.. I do however have a few questions??
    Thank you. Happy to answer.

    What if the person in question has no drug or alcohol history?? Would they still have to submit to testing??
    Minimally. I liken it to when I worked in a psychiatric outpatient facility. Those with a substance use history were tested 1-2 times per week. Those without were tested upon admission and then once randomly during their stay.

    What about patients of medical treatment, that are on medications for life?? Some people are on pain killers for life, others are on blood thinners, some are on heart medications?? Would these people have to submit??
    Same as above, but their PRESCRIBED medications would be exceptions.

    Does the reason someone is on SS or medicare or medicaid have any bearing on on these tests?? Someone with down syndrome perhaps?? Severly Autistic?? Any other affliction??
    Absolutely. They would go into the "minimal" pool.

    The issue that seems to be missed is that most and most by a tremendous margin are on SS and medicare or medicaid for a reason.. Not because they want to be.. It seems unfair to require drug screens and alcohol tests that most likely many of these people will fail anyways because of the meds they are on..
    Testing for prescribed meds is not very complicated. However, there are folks who are on prescribed meds AND are substance abusers. That is why I want a minimal plan in place for those who are not identified as users in any way. You never know when the problem might start, and I think it is unreasonable for someone to spend government money on alcohol or drugs rather than food or shelter.

    Another thought that is never considered is what exactly makes someone unable to work?? Let's consider for a moment someone that is on blood thinners but otherwise for the most part healthy.. Depending on how high the INR has to be, but for this discussion we well say between 2.5 and 3.5, which is pretty high.. A simple nose bleed can become deadly rather quickly.. A simply papercut could also become a serious issue.. No medical insurance company is going to touch them with a 50 foot pole.. Most employers won't higher them because of the possible liability.. Even to be a greeter at a Walmart.
    This is managed under "The CaptainCourtesy Health Plan". It is a tiered plan with a government option. I've posted it a few times over the past two years.

    So?? What happens to such a person?? This isn't really to you CC, but it sickens me to see the number of people here that simply think people are lazy and want to be on SS.. I am sure there is some fraud out there.. There is fraud in anything.. But I never hear anyone condemn banks or bank customers because some people rob banks.
    There is no possible way to make a perfect system where fraud will never occur. I think putting more controls and monitoring in the system can significantly reduce it. I am big on regulation... as most progressives are. If left to their own devices, without regulations, people will do what they can to take advantage of the system. It is the psychology of greed and it over-rules just about everything. The more regulations that are put into place in a system like this, the less likely it is that there will be abuses. They cannot be eliminated, but they can be reduced.

    Everyone needs to stop and consider why people are on SS and medicare.. It is either because they are old and retired or forced out of the work force.
    There are lots of reasons why people are on SS and Medicare. What is equally important, though, is why people REMAIN on SS and Medicare. Sometimes it is because of legitimate circumstances. Sometimes not.

    Again, that wasn't to you SS.. I am just trying to make a point here.
    I know. Your points and concerns are valid. I hope I addressed them.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  9. #129
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    Re: Are Seniors Lazy Parasites

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    This is a horrible thing to say but Ima do it anyway.


    When I am striken with a horrible illness that is mostly terminal, I'm just gonna go. I'll take a few pills and a little help from the hospital, but I'm not gonna do millions in chemo, surgery and hospital stays. I'm only 40, but I've made my choices (I smoke and drink) and I have been blessed beyond anything I could possibly deserve. An old person terrified of death is a sad thing in my book. There are children who starve at age 3 having never seen real food. 50,000 children die every day from lack of clean food and water. I've lived free and done what I wanted for a long time (all of my 40) and I just cannot see going in an economic scream. I don't understand blessed mature adults crying about million dollar treatments while children who've had nothing starve.

    I don't wanna die. My days are wonderful and I want them to never end. But, by 40 or so at least, people should be comfortable with their lives. They should have their things settled, their friends made, their famly aware and their soul established. I do not get why some go out the way they came in, as if they never saw nothin'.
    No offense.. And maybe you will.. But saying that here, and actually staring death in the face is two different things.. Nobody wants to die.. And nobody should be faulted for choosing to live..
    Last edited by DemonMyst; 07-30-11 at 07:10 AM.

  10. #130
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    Re: Are Seniors Lazy Parasites

    Quote Originally Posted by DemonMyst View Post
    No offense.. And maybe you will.. But saying that here, and actually staring death in the face is two different things.. Nobody wants to die.. And nobody should be faulted for choosing to live..
    No offense taken. I've been close plenty and I live in the bush. Ain't no cops for miles on dirt roads or hospitals either; and ain't nobody got a car around here (when I'm in village). I've been uninsured for about 15 years and I don't have any money. Ain't no help comin' my way. I walk like I talk. It's been fun and I ain't a bit scared, just wanna go with my boots on if that's ok with us.
    Last edited by ecofarm; 07-30-11 at 07:16 AM.

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