Should employers & landlords be prohibited from asking applicants if they have a ....

Re: Should employers & landlords be prohibited from asking applicants if they have a

OscarB63 said:

from my experience, most employers or landlords don't give a rat's ass if you got a DUI 25 years ago or if you smoked a little weed in college. those are the kind of "stupid mistakes" that I could forgive.

I am hard pressed to think of a crime that would qualify as a "stupid mistake" that would keep someone from hiring you or renting you an apartment. can you help me out with a couple of examples?

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I guess this just shows how varying opinions can be, because unless I'm desperate to rent the place out, all else being equal a DUI years ago will mean I choose someone else.

My son was nearly killed by a first-time DUI'er, so I give no slack.

Re: Should employers & landlords be prohibited from asking applicants if they have a

Jerry said:

I guess this just shows how varying opinions can be, because unless I'm desperate to rent the place out, all else being equal a DUI years ago will mean I choose someone else.

My son was nearly killed by a first-time DUI'er, so I give no slack.

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but if it was a choice between renting to some guy with a 25 y/o DUI or letting the place sit empty, which would you pick?

Re: Should employers & landlords be prohibited from asking applicants if they have a

OscarB63 said:

but if it was a choice between renting to some guy with a 25 y/o DUI or letting the place sit empty, which would you pick?

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I included qualifiers in my previous statement for a reason. I leave it to the reader to apply 5th grade level basic reading comprehension and surmise the likely outcomes as they play with the values of the variables.

Re: Should employers & landlords be prohibited from asking applicants if they have a

OscarB63 said:

from my experience, most employers or landlords don't give a rat's ass if you got a DUI 25 years ago or if you smoked a little weed in college. those are the kind of "stupid mistakes" that I could forgive.

I am hard pressed to think of a crime that would qualify as a "stupid mistake" that would keep someone from hiring you or renting you an apartment. can you help me out with a couple of examples?

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Sure. There's the lazy landlord/employer who just auto-rejects EVERYONE who checks the "yes" box for that question because he doesn't want to have to make that judgment call. There's the landlord/employer who, for whatever reason, is just rubbed the wrong way by an applicant who has committed a certain type of crime regardless of whether it's relevant. That's why I'd like to see more laws limiting what information the landlord/employer is actually allowed to see and how long it stays on a criminal record.

Look at it from the ex-con's perspective: Suppose he just got out of prison for doing something stupid, and he wants to clean up his act...but in order to do that he needs to get a job. Who is going to hire him with a recent criminal conviction? If he can't find a job, he's more likely to return to crime and end up right back in prison.

Re: Should employers & landlords be prohibited from asking applicants if they have a

Kandahar said:

Sure. There's the lazy landlord/employer who just auto-rejects EVERYONE who checks the "yes" box for that question because he doesn't want to have to make that judgment call. There's the landlord/employer who, for whatever reason, is just rubbed the wrong way by an applicant who has committed a certain type of crime regardless of whether it's relevant. That's why I'd like to see more laws limiting what information the landlord/employer is actually allowed to see and how long it stays on a criminal record.

Look at it from the ex-con's perspective: Suppose he just got out of prison for doing something stupid, and he wants to clean up his act...but in order to do that he needs to get a job. Who is going to hire him with a recent criminal conviction? If he can't find a job, he's more likely to return to crime and end up right back in prison.

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can you be more specific on what you consider "something stupid"?

Re: Should employers & landlords be prohibited from asking applicants if they have a

OscarB63 said:

can you be more specific on what you consider "something stupid"?

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Stealing a car, breaking and entering, DUI, various drug-related offenses, etc.

Re: Should employers & landlords be prohibited from asking applicants if they have a

Kandahar said:

Stealing a car, breaking and entering, DUI, various drug-related offenses, etc.

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I have always thought most of the drug laws were ridiculous and I can, to some degree, see how you could drink more than you planned and wind up with a DUI. but, theft, b&e, etc all require some degree of premeditation so I don't consider crimes like those to be "stupid mistakes". you don't accidentally steal a car

Re: Should employers & landlords be prohibited from asking applicants if they have a

OscarB63 said:

I have always thought most of the drug laws were ridiculous and I can, to some degree, see how you could drink more than you planned and wind up with a DUI. but, theft, b&e, etc all require some degree of premeditation so I don't consider crimes like those to be "stupid mistakes". you don't accidentally steal a car

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Prejudice against criminal offenses may be based on reasons which have nothing to do with one's opinion of the crime, also.

Take a possession charge for using pot, for example. I personally have no issue with pot use. However, maybe I don't want a tenant getting that smell deep into the home, much like cigarettes and pets. I may not rent to you just because you're a smoker. The fact that what you smoke happens to be illegal has nothing to do with it, but if your criminal history says you smoke, all else being equal I'll pass you up.

Also, maybe you got some stupid statutory rape charge long ago, not because you're a sexual predator but because her parents didn't like you and caught you on a legal technicality. Well, all else being equal, I may actually proffer you, because I know your options are limited, which means you're more reliable to pay on time, and will slightly add to the rent.

Re: Should employers & landlords be prohibited from asking applicants if they have a

I read this thread and have to laugh...employers and landlords have the right in every state to do criminal background checks and most credit checks..
They dont know what your crimes are until they do the checks...get over it...it will never change

Re: Should employers & landlords be prohibited from asking applicants if they have a

lpast said:

I read this thread and have to laugh...employers and landlords have the right in every state to do criminal background checks and most credit checks..
They dont know what your crimes are until they do the checks...get over it...it will never change

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Even if they make it illegal to discriminate, the information is still available and will still effect their decision.

They will just need to cover their ass. It's all to easy to simply select someone else.

'Cuz I'll tell you what, it's illegal to discriminate against sexual orientation, but all else being equal, I won't rent to a same-sex couple who aren't and have no intention of raising a child. Like I said it's to easy to simply choose another renter.

Re: Should employers & landlords be prohibited from asking applicants if they have a

Jerry said:

Even if they make it illegal to discriminate, the information is still available and will still effect their decision.

They will just need to cover their ass. It's all to easy to simply select someone else.

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The point that most are missing...they arent discriminating by doing the checks...they have no idea what you have or havent done until they do...

Re: Should employers & landlords be prohibited from asking applicants if they have a

OscarB63 said:

I have always thought most of the drug laws were ridiculous and I can, to some degree, see how you could drink more than you planned and wind up with a DUI. but, theft, b&e, etc all require some degree of premeditation so I don't consider crimes like those to be "stupid mistakes". you don't accidentally steal a car

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Clearly not an accident, but still just a stupid thing to do. It's the kind of thing that the criminal will probably look back on in a couple decades and wonder what the hell he was thinking (that is, if he's given the chance to go straight and turn himself around).

Re: Should employers & landlords be prohibited from asking applicants if they have a

lpast said:

I read this thread and have to laugh...employers and landlords have the right in every state to do criminal background checks and most credit checks..
They dont know what your crimes are until they do the checks...get over it...it will never change

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Glad to know I made somebody laugh today...and you are correct- unfortunately, the government has never and will never provide the average individual with the right to keep his personal history private. IMO, it's idiotic and a waste of time and money by the state, but it will never change. Too many bigoted or paranoid people have too much affluence to just let bygones be bygones.

@OscarB63: I think we have slightly different understandings re the words "stupid mistake". IMO, a stupid mistake composes of an action that, had you thought it through logically, you would not have done. People do things without thinking them through- it happens to the best of us. Unfortunately, sometimes those things have serious consequences, such as major jail time. My belief is that once the state has punished them to the degree it considers necessary for them to, if not be sorry for their actions, at least think twice about the consequences before committing such a crime again. Public access to the criminal record allows people to see that stupid mistake, and immediately become biased against the person because of it. I believe that that is wrong- there should be no increase in rent, no change in trust or judgment, based off of a stupid mistake from years, if not decades in the past. If the person needs help getting a job, most people with internet access and the compassion to give up a little of their time to help a fellow human being can find a job opportunity, an application at least, for the person who needs a job. All I am saying is that people should not have access to the criminal records because it can cause them to become unfairly judgmental or critical, and if they must have access then they should take it upon themselves, not as a legal requirement but as a moral duty, to help that individual. Unfortunately, since most people aren't kind or compassionate towards others (in my experience), I think it preferable that the law should give individuals the right to keep that personal history personal, and that if they are banned from an establishment on that basis, it is the responsibility of the individual to decide to either go someplace else or change their mind and reveal their past.

Re: Should employers & landlords be prohibited from asking applicants if they have a

lpast said:

The point that most are missing...they arent discriminating by doing the checks...they have no idea what you have or havent done until they do...

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Everyone is skipping over that point because there's no sex, money or violence involved with the check itself, so there's no emotional stinger to catch attention.

There is, however, sex, money and violence associated with the crime itself, hence our distraction to that.

Re: Should employers & landlords be prohibited from asking applicants if they have a

Jerry said:

Everyone is skipping over that point because there's no sex, money or violence involved with the check itself, so there's no emotional stinger to catch attention.

There is, however, sex, money and violence associated with the crime itself, hence our distraction to that.

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The check itself seems fine to me- it's your right to want to know more information about the potential lodger or employee. My sole argument is that the lodger or employee should have the right to refuse to allow the check- to tell the employer that that is none of their business, they either are letting you in or they aren't. I personally think the employer shouldn't do the check, out of personal distaste- I understand however why some do. I don't think it's fair to judge someone based off what they did in the best, but I understand that some people have had bad experiences or are particularly cautious in their business dealings (or are paranoid, whatever the case may be). They should have the right to request a check- people should just have equal right to say "No."

Re: Should employers & landlords be prohibited from asking applicants if they have a

Belgarath said:

The check itself seems fine to me- it's your right to want to know more information about the potential lodger or employee. My sole argument is that the lodger or employee should have the right to refuse to allow the check- to tell the employer that that is none of their business, they either are letting you in or they aren't. I personally think the employer shouldn't do the check, out of personal distaste- I understand however why some do. I don't think it's fair to judge someone based off what they did in the best, but I understand that some people have had bad experiences or are particularly cautious in their business dealings (or are paranoid, whatever the case may be). They should have the right to request a check- people should just have equal right to say "No."

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When you fill out an application it asks for your permission for the landlord or employer to perform a background/credit check. If you authorize them it's run, if you don't, they then have a decision as to whether or not to take the risk. What you're asking for already exists in most (if not all) states.

Re: Should employers & landlords be prohibited from asking applicants if they have a

Belgarath said:

The check itself seems fine to me- it's your right to want to know more information about the potential lodger or employee. My sole argument is that the lodger or employee should have the right to refuse to allow the check- to tell the employer that that is none of their business, they either are letting you in or they aren't. I personally think the employer shouldn't do the check, out of personal distaste- I understand however why some do. I don't think it's fair to judge someone based off what they did in the best, but I understand that some people have had bad experiences or are particularly cautious in their business dealings (or are paranoid, whatever the case may be). They should have the right to request a check- people should just have equal right to say "No."

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You do have the right to refuse...dont sign the waiver and just move on to ano ther job or apt

Re: Should employers & landlords be prohibited from asking applicants if they have a

If a landlord will take you without doing a credit or criminal background check...trust that the place aint fit to live in

Re: Should employers & landlords be prohibited from asking applicants if they have a

lpast said:

If a landlord will take you without doing a credit or criminal background check...trust that the place aint fit to live in

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my oldest son lived in just such a place for a couple of months. there were door to door crack salesmen and prostitutes

Re: Should employers & landlords be prohibited from asking applicants if they have a

Belgarath said:

The check itself seems fine to me- it's your right to want to know more information about the potential lodger or employee. My sole argument is that the lodger or employee should have the right to refuse to allow the check- to tell the employer that that is none of their business, they either are letting you in or they aren't. I personally think the employer shouldn't do the check, out of personal distaste- I understand however why some do. I don't think it's fair to judge someone based off what they did in the best, but I understand that some people have had bad experiences or are particularly cautious in their business dealings (or are paranoid, whatever the case may be). They should have the right to request a check- people should just have equal right to say "No."

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Anyone can decline to give permission. No one's putting a gun to your head telling you to aply for a given job or a given home.

Myself, I'm going to give my attention to applicants who return permissions and other documentation promptly. If you choose not to return a permission form, you have chosen not to complete or delay your application process. This can and likely will result in someone else being assessed before you. As I need to have a home rented or a job filled sooner then later, they're likely to get it first, while you're likely to get a professional letter thanking you for your application, but the position has been filled/home has been rented.

To note Kandahar's point, in my example I would not have discriminated against you for any crime you may have committed. I would have discriminated against you for failing to give your criminal history at all. This wold be perfectly legal as I was never capable of identifying you as a member of any protected class to begin with, to then discriminate against you because of that protected class.

Re: Should employers & landlords be prohibited from asking applicants if they have a

OscarB63 said:

my oldest son lived in just such a place for a couple of months. there were door to door crack salesmen and prostitutes

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I have lived in three residencies that didn't require a criminal background check, though two of them required credit checks...I have never seen a door to door crack salesmen in all that time (15 years) and there were no prostitutes within 2 miles radius of my apartment, unless someone brought them in, in which case there was a universally accepted "Keep it secret and quiet" policy. No offense, but your oldest son must have terrible taste in living quarters. The people in the places I stayed kept to themselves, performed their jobs, and in general we kept the place tidy and clean. The police only visited twice in all that time, once to catch a drug dealer and once to shut down a party at 4 am that was still going too loudly after their 2nd warning. These people for the most part didn't get in each others way and just left each other alone. I was never bothered about anyone else, no one asked me any questions, as long as we paid the rent no one cared that we were using that space. I left no record behind me when I left, they don't keep track of your name or contact information. It's simply a nice way of living without having to worry about the government constantly staring over your shoulder and monitoring you. I honestly don't understand why people put up with places that keep asking you for more information about yourself, that seem to want to know every detail of your life. I'm just as happy where no one asks questions because your business is no one's but your own.

Re: Should employers & landlords be prohibited from asking applicants if they have a

Belgarath said:

I have lived in three residencies that didn't require a criminal background check, though two of them required credit checks...I have never seen a door to door crack salesmen in all that time (15 years) and there were no prostitutes within 2 miles radius of my apartment, unless someone brought them in, in which case there was a universally accepted "Keep it secret and quiet" policy. No offense, but your oldest son must have terrible taste in living quarters. The people in the places I stayed kept to themselves, performed their jobs, and in general we kept the place tidy and clean. The police only visited twice in all that time, once to catch a drug dealer and once to shut down a party at 4 am that was still going too loudly after their 2nd warning. These people for the most part didn't get in each others way and just left each other alone. I was never bothered about anyone else, no one asked me any questions, as long as we paid the rent no one cared that we were using that space. I left no record behind me when I left, they don't keep track of your name or contact information. It's simply a nice way of living without having to worry about the government constantly staring over your shoulder and monitoring you. I honestly don't understand why people put up with places that keep asking you for more information about yourself, that seem to want to know every detail of your life. I'm just as happy where no one asks questions because your business is no one's but your own.

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that's why I built a house.

Re: Should employers & landlords be prohibited from asking applicants if they have a

OscarB63 said:

that's why I built a house.

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Those who can afford the materials to do so and the time spent owning two properties (one where you live and one where you're building) are truly fortunate...the rest of us must make do with what is currently available.

Re: Should employers & landlords be prohibited from asking applicants if they have a

Belgarath said:

I honestly don't understand why people put up with places that keep asking you for more information about yourself, that seem to want to know every detail of your life.

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Using myself as an example, I gave my current landlord everything she asked for, and quite fast even by her standards, because the place on on a great piece of property, excellent location, and for slightly lower then fair-market value.

She chose me as a tenant over others due to my steady job history, clean criminal and DMV, and am willing to comply with all their little rules others may find annoying....such as absolutely no pets in the building, not even fish, at all, ever.

My sis didn't like that she couldn't bring her dog in even for a few minutes. She had to leave him in the bed of her truck, and then she also had to leash him, as per the rules.

Re: Should employers & landlords be prohibited from asking applicants if they have a

I have to ask one question: clean DMV? Does that mean if you had been in a car accident once, say you ran a red and t-boned someone without causing any major injuries or deaths, that you might not have gotten the place? Otherwise, if you honestly care that little about your privacy, more power to you. It's good that some people are willing to take those spots, or else control freaks would never have anyone to monitor and control.