View Poll Results: Was it Ever?

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  • Yes

    6 18.75%
  • No

    18 56.25%
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Thread: Was A Big Deal Ever Possible?

  1. #41
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    Re: Was A Big Deal Ever Possible?

    Quote Originally Posted by DemonMyst View Post
    Will.. The problem that you and other conservatives have is that your entire view point on this issue is flawed and baseless.. Our government took a $3.2 billion dollar pay cut thanks to Bush.. There is no arguement there..

    So consider this.. You typically make $2000 a month.. But you took a pay cut, so now you only make $1500 a month.. Of course the economy grew a little bit.. It usually does every year.. So now, thanks to this little growth, you now make $1600 a month.. Without your other pay cut you would have been making $2100 a month.. So you are still $500 dollars off..

    That is what you people don't understand.. Sure the economy grew.. But thanks to the tax cut, our government was still short.. We the tax payers essentially gave money to the rich and got nothing in return.. You would have been better off giving that money to Nasa or something..
    We gave them nothing. We took less. Now things like TARP, the Stimulus package and the devaluation of the dollar did indeed do what you are complaining about.

    You can never argue against this point.. As long as the tax cuts are in effect, conservatives are shorting our government money.. Bush had a budget surplus when he took office.. Where is it now?? Bush even admitted he had it so don't go saying it didn't exist.. The surplus was the basis for the entire arguement for Bush's tax cuts..
    This is what gets me. The attitude that it's the governments money.

    The other issue is that you all sit and blame Obama for all this spending?? How much has been spent on emergencies?? Fire, floods, oil spills, ect. ect.. Do conservatives consider this?? You complain and moan and groan about things that help the poor.. When you simply miss reality all together..

    You are more concerned about the people that attempt to evade paying their taxes and not the billions spent on an oil spill that BP is doing all it can to not pay for.. Again with the help of conservatives.. I am not sure what to say here?? But that is far from the smart thing to do..
    Sorry, what exactly has anyone done to force BP pay up completely for the spill?

    You tell me dude?? Who's reality do you want to talk about?? Your's which doesn't exist both on paper and in the real world.. Or the one that just slaps you around because the math is so simple..

    We have a lot of problems in this nations.. We don't need a bunch of dipsquat morons in congress threatening to flush this nation in the crapper because of the useless tax cuts to the rich that should have gone bye bye to begin with.. Oh!!! Wait?? We had to hold up the vote on unemployment benifits to get them extended.. Wow.. So first republicans hold up the unemployed and now the entire nation for some tax cuts that do nobody but the rich any good.. Instead of giving the rich another $3.2 trillion.. Why not just give the bottom 1% a cool 10 million dollars or something.. At least you will get some economic stimulus and some job creation.. I mean crap.. May as well.. I am sure the poor are better at creating jobs than the rich.. The question is, are you smart enough to understand all this?? You will at least not have to worry about them out sourcing any labor to another country..
    If I make $50,000 a year and I spend $60,000 I can't just go to my employer and demand a $10,000 raise to make up for my irresponsible spending.

  2. #42
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    Re: Was A Big Deal Ever Possible?

    Quote Originally Posted by 1Perry View Post
    If I make $50,000 a year and I spend $60,000 I can't just go to my employer and demand a $10,000 raise to make up for my irresponsible spending.
    And now due to a pay cut, you make $40,000 a year.. What do you do with the $20,000 in expenses you can no longer pay for?? And who's money is it??

    When we lower taxes it is cutting the pay so to speak of the government.. The point of who's money it is, is irrelevent.. It is our government.. We vote in elections and we fund it.. So it is a moot issue.. The money doens't belong to the rich.. It belongs to the rest of the country..

    Tarp was Bush.. And what about it?? It may break even if not make us some money..

    TARP could have cost taxpayers $700 billion. Now it looks like it might break even. - By Daniel Gross - Slate Magazine

    The stimulus for the most part worked.. It just needed to be bigger.. But of course.. When do conservatives want to do anything for the benefit of the greater good?? We will give $3.2 trillion to the rich with no strings attached.. But piss moan and groan about the $800 billion or so the stimulus was.. Go figure.. Something that helps the country equal bad.. Something that helps the rich equal good.. Look if conservatives want to bend over and lube it up for the rich, that is fine.. Can we leave the rest of the nation out of it??

  3. #43
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    Re: Was A Big Deal Ever Possible?

    Quote Originally Posted by DemonMyst View Post
    And now due to a pay cut, you make $40,000 a year.. What do you do with the $20,000 in expenses you can no longer pay for?? And who's money is it??
    I spend less. Again, I can't just ask for more. Millions have had to do this.

    When we lower taxes it is cutting the pay so to speak of the government.. The point of who's money it is, is irrelevent.. It is our government.. We vote in elections and we fund it.. So it is a moot issue.. The money doens't belong to the rich.. It belongs to the rest of the country..
    Again, an attitude I completely dismiss.

    Tarp was Bush.. And what about it?? It may break even if not make us some money..
    What does it matter who it was under? You've not read the news lately I'm guessing. We just lost 1.3 billion on Chrysler (despite earlier claims that they fully repaid this money) we are still poring billions into F&F, there is no way we come out ahead. Despite this and despite your claims, you still rush to defend a program that did exactly what you claim to despise.

    The stimulus for the most part worked.. It just needed to be bigger.. But of course.. When do conservatives want to do anything for the benefit of the greater good?? We will give $3.2 trillion to the rich with no strings attached.. But piss moan and groan about the $800 billion or so the stimulus was.. Go figure.. Something that helps the country equal bad.. Something that helps the rich equal good.. Look if conservatives want to bend over and lube it up for the rich, that is fine.. Can we leave the rest of the nation out of it??
    It completely failed. We were told that it would keep unemployment under 8%. It did nothing of the sort and little to nothing for the lower class. Your complaints are worthless. Just more class envy.

  4. #44
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    Re: Was A Big Deal Ever Possible?

    US got a spending problem, not a revenue problem. That's a fact, and US should find ways to control spending. However, Bush tax cuts were irresponsible and should be reverted together with spending cuts. But Obama don't want to revert Bush tax cuts. He only want to increase taxes for the very rich. This will hardly bring any revenue, and may hurt US business.

  5. #45
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    Re: Was A Big Deal Ever Possible?

    Tarp was Bush.. And what about it?? It may break even if not make us some money..
    I covered this elsewhere with not a reply so let me explain again what TARP did.

    Goldman Sachs packaged absolutely worthless mortgage's (that they knew were worthless) and paid the rating agencies to back them. They then got F&F to buy these worthless mortgages up.

    While still holding billions in bad loans, TARP bought them up also when the markets collapsed. The deal when F&F bought up loans was that those who sold them were supposed to take them back if they were misrepresented. These were grossly and fraudulently misrepresented but yet, despite making record profits nobody has held them liable for any of these loans.

    Timmy Geithner is looking after his own and all of us are being asked to pay more and more in taxes while getting less back for that so that G.S. can continue making record profits.

    This is TARP.
    Last edited by 1Perry; 07-24-11 at 07:48 AM.

  6. #46
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    Re: Was A Big Deal Ever Possible?

    Quote Originally Posted by DemonMyst View Post
    And now due to a pay cut, you make $40,000 a year.. What do you do with the $20,000 in expenses you can no longer pay for?
    I stop spending it. In fact, I spend even less, in order to pay down debt.

    And who's money is it??
    the 40K? that's mine.

    When we lower taxes it is cutting the pay so to speak of the government
    that is not true. tax rates =/= revenue

    . The point of who's money it is, is irrelevent.. It is our government.. We vote in elections and we fund it.. So it is a moot issue.. The money doens't belong to the rich.. It belongs to the rest of the country..
    that is an absolute lie, and to claim it is to overthrow everything we claim to believe about government in this country.

    The stimulus for the most part worked..
    on the contrary - the stimulus has failed by it's own standards

  7. #47
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    Re: Was A Big Deal Ever Possible?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    but the last couple of years are the part most pertinent to our current discussion.

    Look at the relative stability of the last 60 years. then look at revenue's swing far outside of where it has been before.

    Odd, that.

    Now, tax rates weren't significantly lowered between 2007 and 2010; which of course merely reinforces my points that nominal tax rates have very little direct effect on revenue.

    So, what changed? what changed as dramatically as revenue.



    Government Spending did.

    Government does not tax itself like it taxes labor, production, and investment. So, when Government spending increases as a percentage of GDP, Revenue decreases as a percentage of GDP. conversely, when Spending decreases, Revenue increases, both relative to GDP. Government spending started rising in the early 80's, and Revenue started falling (again, as a percent of GDP). Spending went into a long decline in the 90s, and revenue had an inversely proportional rise. then spending increased, and revenue dropped. Then spending lowered slightly and revenue increased. then, starting first in 2008 under George Bush and accelerating under Barack Obama, government spending skyrocketed as a percent of GDP, higher than it has been in the post war era - and so revenue plummeted to lower than it had been in the post-war era.

    If you want greater revenue as a percent of GDP; then lower government spending as a percent of GDP. If you want more raw revenue, then you have to increase GDP without increasing the size of government relative to it. Thats why everyone from Bill Clinton to the President's Bi Partisan Simpson-Bowles Commission to Paul Ryan want to reduce rates and decrease complexity - because they have all seen this exact same math.
    Man, you managed to not address a single point I made, took two full posts and cut them down to one sentence, and still manage to treat the economy as even simpler than a household budget. That is some incredible fail there sir.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

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  8. #48
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    Re: Was A Big Deal Ever Possible?

    No.
    Republicans appear to be giving the President enough rope to hang himself with the budget and debt ceiling.

    They are banking the next election on it.
    The smartest guy in the room.

  9. #49
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    Re: Was A Big Deal Ever Possible?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fuelrod View Post
    No.
    Republicans appear to be giving the President enough rope to hang himself with the budget and debt ceiling.

    They are banking the next election on it.
    Yes. Kill the economy in hopes of winning an election.. The problem is.. With the polls I have seen.. They are just hanging themselves and rightfully so..

  10. #50
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    Re: Was A Big Deal Ever Possible?

    I've become inordinately fatalistic. I have a decent job, and it's not going anywhere. So if the markets collapse, etc? Such is life. As I've stated before, I can't give a **** if they don't. If they need to be right, they need to have the last word, they're willing to put the greed of the few ahead of the needs of the rest of us? So ****ing be it. Their portfolios will crash and burn right along with the rest of the country.

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