View Poll Results: Was it Ever?

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  • Yes

    6 18.75%
  • No

    18 56.25%
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Thread: Was A Big Deal Ever Possible?

  1. #121
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    Re: Was A Big Deal Ever Possible?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    In November 2010, the nation had a massive right-leaning correction to two, very large left-leaning previous elections.

    however, the White House and the Senate turn over every 4 and 6 years respectively. The House turns over every two.

    Ergo, the President and Senate are reflective of strong Democrat elections, whereas the House is reflective of a strong Republican election.

    I posit, therefore, that a Grand Bargain was never a real possibility. To say that the two sides are too far apart isn't really a full explanation; but rather that in the context of a large deal, there never was any serious overlap. The math makes it nigh impossible to talk about large deficit reduction without reforming the entitlements, but Democrats are unwilling to reform the entitlements without tax hikes - and the minimum that they will accept is higher than the maximum that Republicans will accept. Both sides put forth their "best offer" and know that they are compromising as much as they possibly can - while both best offers remain too far apart, and each accuses the other of not compromising.

    In short, this is something that will have to be decided by the 2012 election - because at current our government, split between the sections that were a reaction to George Bush and the section that was a reaction to Barack Obama, is simply incapable of finding ground both can stand on.
    He seems possible ...


  2. #122
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    Re: Was A Big Deal Ever Possible?

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Define tax the **** out of. This is important as no one has suggested any serious tax increases. This is just partisan hyperbole, right?
    Define "no one".
    I have suggested that the tax rates be restored to those of the Clinton Era.
    What we do need to do is work on the trade balance deficit,
    We cannot continue to have our money on a one-way joyride to Arabia and China..
    We do seem to need help from Japan and Germany...and Russia...

  3. #123
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    Re: Was A Big Deal Ever Possible?

    Quote Originally Posted by 1Perry View Post
    No, it's everything that has been piled on including the wasted stimulus money.
    This is a separate argument, the conservatives and libertarians seems to "think" that the stimulus was "wasted".
    Many think otherwise...
    I will be different and keep an open mind.

  4. #124
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    Re: Was A Big Deal Ever Possible?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    In November 2010, the nation had a massive right-leaning correction to two, very large left-leaning previous elections.

    however, the White House and the Senate turn over every 4 and 6 years respectively. The House turns over every two.

    Ergo, the President and Senate are reflective of strong Democrat elections, whereas the House is reflective of a strong Republican election.

    I posit, therefore, that a Grand Bargain was never a real possibility. To say that the two sides are too far apart isn't really a full explanation; but rather that in the context of a large deal, there never was any serious overlap. The math makes it nigh impossible to talk about large deficit reduction without reforming the entitlements, but Democrats are unwilling to reform the entitlements without tax hikes - and the minimum that they will accept is higher than the maximum that Republicans will accept. Both sides put forth their "best offer" and know that they are compromising as much as they possibly can - while both best offers remain too far apart, and each accuses the other of not compromising.

    In short, this is something that will have to be decided by the 2012 election - because at current our government, split between the sections that were a reaction to George Bush and the section that was a reaction to Barack Obama, is simply incapable of finding ground both can stand on.
    Interesting.
    Then the answer is default and the so-called dire consequences.

  5. #125
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    Re: Was A Big Deal Ever Possible?

    Or not.

    In a series of phone calls, administration officials have told bankers that the administration will not allow a default to happen even if the debt cap isn't raised by the August 2 date Treasury Secretary Tim Geithner says the government will run out of money to pay all its bills, including obligations to bond holders. Geithner made the rounds on the Sunday talk shows saying a default is imminent if the debt ceiling isn't raised, and President Obama issued a similar warning during a Friday press conference after budget negotiations with House Republicans broke down.

    Read more: Obama to Banks: We're Not Defaulting - FoxBusiness.com


    I have no doubt that the source will be dismissed but count on it. There will be no default.

  6. #126
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    Re: Was A Big Deal Ever Possible?

    Quote Originally Posted by earthworm View Post
    Define "no one".
    I have suggested that the tax rates be restored to those of the Clinton Era.
    What we do need to do is work on the trade balance deficit,
    We cannot continue to have our money on a one-way joyride to Arabia and China..
    We do seem to need help from Japan and Germany...and Russia...
    I was thanking mostly those in government who are making serious proposals, likely to be heard.

    As for Clinton Era, even that would be below historic highs.

    The rest? I'm willing to hear that debate out.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  7. #127
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    Re: Was A Big Deal Ever Possible?

    Quote Originally Posted by 1Perry View Post
    Better management? We gave Chrysler away and have no say in management and just lost 1.3 trillion dollars on it. Chrysler had to pay the money back the last time they were bailed out. Don't try and revise history.
    You are correct about 1980. My mistake. Must be getting old. I'll check on the rest later.


    They were sold off to F&F. F&F did nothing to ensure that these loans were good because they didn't care. Part of the agreement was also that any bad loans were to be bought back by the originating source. That being Goldman Sachs. How many of these loans have GS been forced to buy back? They are making record profits while we are pouring more and more money into the bad loans. Why is that?
    I'm not sure what you're saying here, but all those loan flippers did not sell their loans to F&F. They sold them everywhere.

    Steven Gjerstad and Vernon Smith Explain Why the Housing Crash Ruined the Financial System but the Dot-com Collapse Did Not - WSJ.com

    Top 10 Reasons For United States Real Estate Crash, Housing Plunge

    http://www.realestatedecline.com/top...sing_crash.htm


    Bankruptcy does NOT mean you go out of business and everyone loses their job. Where does this idea come from? (I know where it comes from)
    I was taking it to the worse possible outcome. A failing business. Not sure you do know where it comes from.
    Last edited by Boo Radley; 07-26-11 at 03:14 PM.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  8. #128
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    Re: Was A Big Deal Ever Possible?

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    I'm not sure what you're saying here, but all those loan flippers did not sell their loans to F&F. They sold them everywhere.
    No, they did not sell every single one to F&F but they sold a large portion to them. That doesn't answer the question as to why we have not forced these bad loans back on them though.

    I was taking it to the worse possible outcome. A failing business. Not sure you do know where it comes from.
    That is the line the government promoted. There was no reason for the worse possible outcome. Just like we are not going to default.

  9. #129
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    Re: Was A Big Deal Ever Possible?

    Quote Originally Posted by 1Perry View Post
    No, they did not sell every single one to F&F but they sold a large portion to them. That doesn't answer the question as to why we have not forced these bad loans back on them though.
    Can't answer why yet. But these guys went to a lot of trouble to cheat a lot of people. Their skeme was complicated, and they bet on failure. It wasn't F&F that was largely to blame, but a lack of oversigt, deregulation, and banking greed, with a mechanism that allowed them to sell loans, and that removed responsibility from the lender.


    That is the line the government promoted. There was no reason for the worse possible outcome. Just like we are not going to default.
    I do recall read more than a few things outside the government promoting that thought. I'm trying to get out of here presently, but I will try to look for something for you later tonight.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  10. #130
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    Re: Was A Big Deal Ever Possible?

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Can't answer why yet. But these guys went to a lot of trouble to cheat a lot of people. Their skeme was complicated, and they bet on failure. It wasn't F&F that was largely to blame, but a lack of oversigt, deregulation, and banking greed, with a mechanism that allowed them to sell loans, and that removed responsibility from the lender.
    "Largely" to blame? What does that mean? The played a pretty big role. They bought up these bad loans without a care as to what was in them. Let's me make something clear once again. The mechanism did not remove the responsibility from the lender. They are responsible for them BUT nobody is making them responsible.

    I do recall read more than a few things outside the government promoting that thought. I'm trying to get out of here presently, but I will try to look for something for you later tonight.
    Well yes, there were many who had something to gain from this viewpoint.

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