View Poll Results: Was it Ever?

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  • Yes

    6 18.75%
  • No

    18 56.25%
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    8 25.00%
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Thread: Was A Big Deal Ever Possible?

  1. #111
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    Re: Was A Big Deal Ever Possible?

    Quote Originally Posted by lpast View Post
    That is not what im saying...at that point when the rallys first started it was supported at least in my area in fla by working class babyboomers. They did not expect the teaparty to morph into lets cut everything for the working class, attack public workers and Blame Social Security Medicare and Public workers for all our debt and the current economic climate.
    LOL, all I can do is pass this off as rhetoric. They believe the cuts have to come from everywhere. You say this despite me pointing out to you that they are every bit against corporate welfare as any of those other things.

    These debt ceiling debates if anyone wants to be honest are in limbo strictly because the teaparty is forcing Boehner not to accept anything but what THEY want.
    That is not negotiating in good faith...that is merely gestapo demanding.
    Yes, just like the Nazi's. There is nowhere left to go when one decides they must go there. It just shows you aren't into a serious discussion.

  2. #112
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    Re: Was A Big Deal Ever Possible?

    Quote Originally Posted by 1Perry View Post
    You've already done that to yourself: Lean: Very Liberal
    So where do I stand on the issue then? Come on, since you know where I stand, let's hear it.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

  3. #113
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    Re: Was A Big Deal Ever Possible?

    Quote Originally Posted by 1Perry View Post
    And I believe that while we might have had a slight bit more pain, we would have been past it by now and not be this much more into debt. So in the end it seems you agree by noting "not sure", "suspect", "may" that your belief isn't absolute and other beliefs could be what would have happened.

    I can make an arguement for my position for everyone you can provide.
    So the about 5 % the stimulus added to the debt is what is breaking our back now?
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

  4. #114
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    Re: Was A Big Deal Ever Possible?

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    So where do I stand on the issue then? Come on, since you know where I stand, let's hear it.
    You think it was successful because it was in a small way successful. Isn't that what we discussed all morning?

  5. #115
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    Re: Was A Big Deal Ever Possible?

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    So the about 5 % the stimulus added to the debt is what is breaking our back now?
    No, it's everything that has been piled on including the wasted stimulus money.

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    Re: Was A Big Deal Ever Possible?

    Quote Originally Posted by 1Perry View Post
    You think it was successful because it was in a small way successful. Isn't that what we discussed all morning?
    Actually at that point we were discussing my stance on the budget debate.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

  7. #117
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    Re: Was A Big Deal Ever Possible?

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    I won't either for that matter, but CP above says we can't afford medicare. I would consider that part of our bills, that would fit the definition. I believe any reasonable and responsibile settlement would include both spending cuts and tax increases. And a government that was doing its job would work to compromise, as that is the way a democracy works. We cannot function without consensus. So anyone signing pledges, seeking to have their own way and the compromise be danmned, has misunderstood and perverted the process IMHO.

    One more thing, as for the issue of whether the stimulus was a success or failure, I would argue more somewhere inbetween. It did not accomplish all hoped for, but things may well have been worse without it. Like many, I believe the stimulus did not go far enough, but the nature of these efforts is short term, and not long term. At best, they stop the bleeding. At worse, they slow it. Seeking an all or nothing verdict is not neccessarily the most accurate way to approach it.
    I despise Norquist.

  8. #118
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    Re: Was A Big Deal Ever Possible?

    Quote Originally Posted by BDBoop View Post
    I despise Norquist.
    Why? The GOP are just using that as a cover -

    "In a piece titled “Read My Lips: No New Taxes,” Norquist, the president of Americans for Tax Reform, restates his position first articulated Thursday on The Washington Post editorial page that allowing the Bush tax cuts to expire would not break the pledge, which he says has been signed by 236 House members and 41 senators.

    "If they are ended, the government will take in nearly $4 trillion more over the next decade than if they remain."

    Read more: Grover Norquist: Pledge no obstacle to deficit deal - Reid J. Epstein - POLITICO.com
    Last edited by Catawba; 07-25-11 at 10:14 PM.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  9. #119
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    Re: Was A Big Deal Ever Possible?

    Quote Originally Posted by 1Perry View Post
    O.K. I disagree. Not really anywhere to go beyond that.



    There was absolutely no reason the auto industries had to fail barring government intervention. Or at the very least to the amount it did. We could have simply put them into a structured bankruptcy that would have hurt, but it would have been done without giving away Chrysler and telling creditors to get lost. How do you get people to invest in a company when you know that the government might come along and simply say your investment is no longer valid, we are going to give it to someone else?



    It's not.



    You completely ignore the psychological side. Obama's proposed budget was loaded with more and more spending. It's why it was defeated 0-97. People are very reluctant to go back to "normal" because they know all this stuff that is still piling up (current loss with Chrysler, the continue sinkhole that is Fannie Mae) has to be paid for.

    I believe that rather than bailing out Wall Street we would have allowed them to take their lumps and then arrest those who ran astray of the law (and there are many, many of them) that people would have had more faith in the economy and government. Right now many do not have any faith in the government, the economy or the markets.
    We've been bailing out the auto industry for as long as I can remember. What I liked about Obama's approach, was that for the first time we asked for something in return, pay back and better management. In the past, both democrats and republicans just gave them the money. No one was going to let them just go bankrupt, no matter the conditions. We have history on this.

    Now as for Wall Street, something I agree should not have been done, that's an entirely different animal, but something both parties were party to. And we should never have gotten into the banking condition we gaot into. I recommend the seeing the documentary "Inside Job" if you get the chance. I don't expect you to buy everything in it, but I do think there are some things to consider there. Freddie and Fannie wer eless a problem in and of themselves than the banking system that allowed morgates to be sold off, and for investors to bet on failure. People try to simplify too much IMHO and sometimes miss the actual problems, the large rproblems.

    Now, for the reaosn I think it would have been worse. I know in education jobs were saved and time given to adjust. This was important. I am sure that jobs not laost due to saving the auto industry were important, and would not have come back quickly with bankruptcy. An dif this is true, not only would the pain been greater, but the public outcry would have been worse. Adn while you gave a simple "it's not" as a reply, it is almost certain. We can see this by the jobs that were not lost for awhile, and by seeing how difficult it is to rebuild in a poor economy. There's no magic for people unemployed, especially with more unempoloyed and less money availble to put them to work. Business doesn't trickle down, but instead hunkers down when things are tough.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  10. #120
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    Re: Was A Big Deal Ever Possible?

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    We've been bailing out the auto industry for as long as I can remember. What I liked about Obama's approach, was that for the first time we asked for something in return, pay back and better management. In the past, both democrats and republicans just gave them the money. No one was going to let them just go bankrupt, no matter the conditions. We have history on this.
    Better management? We gave Chrysler away and have no say in management and just lost 1.3 trillion dollars on it. Chrysler had to pay the money back the last time they were bailed out. Don't try and revise history.

    Now as for Wall Street, something I agree should not have been done, that's an entirely different animal, but something both parties were party to. And we should never have gotten into the banking condition we gaot into. I recommend the seeing the documentary "Inside Job" if you get the chance. I don't expect you to buy everything in it, but I do think there are some things to consider there. Freddie and Fannie wer eless a problem in and of themselves than the banking system that allowed morgates to be sold off, and for investors to bet on failure. People try to simplify too much IMHO and sometimes miss the actual problems, the large rproblems.
    They were sold off to F&F. F&F did nothing to ensure that these loans were good because they didn't care. Part of the agreement was also that any bad loans were to be bought back by the originating source. That being Goldman Sachs. How many of these loans have GS been forced to buy back? They are making record profits while we are pouring more and more money into the bad loans. Why is that?

    Now, for the reaosn I think it would have been worse. I know in education jobs were saved and time given to adjust. This was important. I am sure that jobs not laost due to saving the auto industry were important, and would not have come back quickly with bankruptcy. An dif this is true, not only would the pain been greater, but the public outcry would have been worse. Adn while you gave a simple "it's not" as a reply, it is almost certain. We can see this by the jobs that were not lost for awhile, and by seeing how difficult it is to rebuild in a poor economy. There's no magic for people unemployed, especially with more unempoloyed and less money availble to put them to work. Business doesn't trickle down, but instead hunkers down when things are tough.
    Bankruptcy does NOT mean you go out of business and everyone loses their job. Where does this idea come from? (I know where it comes from)

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