View Poll Results: How To Eliminate Poverty, Re-establish the Middle-Class? Check all you agree with

Voters
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  • Government funded higher education just as other industrialized nations do

    29 35.37%
  • Cut out tax loopholes for the rich to benefit the lower and middle class

    37 45.12%
  • Start disallowing outsourcing to other countries for lower wages

    31 37.80%
  • Institute a flat tax

    34 41.46%
  • Disallow those in poverty to have children

    39 47.56%
  • This is not possible; we will always have poverty and no middle class

    15 18.29%
  • There should always be poverty

    9 10.98%
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Thread: Elimination of Poverty, the Re-establishment of the Middle Class

  1. #81
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    Re: Elimination of Poverty, the Re-establishment of the Middle Class

    Quote Originally Posted by WI Crippler View Post
    It's worked out so great everywhere its been tried. No poverty in those countries.
    I guess you can't really call it poverty if everybody is in the same boat.

  2. #82
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    Re: Elimination of Poverty, the Re-establishment of the Middle Class

    Start by changing the Welfare trap that was designed to keep people in poverty while telling them it was to help them.

    They made it easier to get if the Dad moved out and penalized people the minute they got the weakest job or income.

    So the best thing to do is not listed.
    Last edited by Councilman; 07-25-11 at 02:46 AM.

  3. #83
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    Re: Elimination of Poverty, the Re-establishment of the Middle Class

    Quote Originally Posted by atrasicarius View Post
    I'm not talking about giving. There are some things I support giving, like education and health care, but you can't eat education and you can't live in health care. What I support is equal opportunity, so that if someone ****s up, the only person they can blame is themselves. When you can legitimately look at anyone in poverty and say, "They deserve to be there," I'll be happy.
    Isn't there equal opportunity now?

  4. #84
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    Re: Elimination of Poverty, the Re-establishment of the Middle Class

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Your line about the WAIST was clever.

    as to the charge of ENVY

    The whole charge of ENVY has been thoroughly trashed and disposed of. It is intended as a defense mechanism to make the user feel both superior to those it is being wielded against and provide them with an all purpose excuse that defies actual examination or substantiation. It is similar to the girl with hurt feelings claiming that "you hate me because I'm beautiful" in that it is a self given compliment disguised in self pity intended to make the person appear as an injured party and look good at the same time. The implication of this silly ENVY charge is that we only want what the rich have. It falsely pretends that we are simply wallowing in our own unhappiness that we are not rich, we are not wealthy, we do not have all the goodies an toys that the blessed of the earth have.

    Nothing could be further from reality and nothing could be further from the truth.

    Every argument I read on this site demanding that the rich pay more in taxation has nothing to do with what people personally want for themselves. It has everything to do with what they believe a just and fair governmental system should build in the way of a rational and sustainable tax policy for over a society of over 300 million people. It has everything to do with the concern about the increasingly growing gap between income classes in America.

    As yourself this question - if the right can no longer play the ENVY card as a knee jerk reflex defense mechanism what else do they have left?

    Answer: they will have to deal with the specific realities of tax proposals and they end up losing on those specifics. They will have to defend thirty years of tax cuts on the wealthy and they will lose on that record. They will have to defend corporate tax rates which appear healthy on paper but in reality are so riddled with holes that many corporations end up paying little or even nothing and that does fly very well with Americans. They will have to defend tax rates which see average workers end up paying their total tax burden almost at the same levels that the wealthy pay when all taxation is considered to all levels of government and that reality ends up making them look bad. They will have to defend statistics that show the rich getting richer by leaps and bounds and the rest of society is either stagnant or actually slipping backwards and losing ground and that is something they do not want to publicize.

    And those are losing issues for them.

    So instead, we get this all purpose, easy to use, no actual analysis required charge of ENVY applied when all else fails or is simply inadequate in an actual debate or argument.

    Each time it is raised, it should be exposed and dealt with it for what it is.

    Each time it is raised, we all should join in and trash it, smash it and let it crash to the ground.
    Maybe envy is not the right word, but there is something with this poster when he says that all rich people aquired their wealth unfairly.

  5. #85
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    Re: Elimination of Poverty, the Re-establishment of the Middle Class

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    To enable consumers enough disposable income after living expenses, today including the most expensive health care system in the world, to be able to buy their product.

    Henry Ford discovered this many years ago. Some are still learning.
    That is not the responsibility of the employeer.

  6. #86
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    Re: Elimination of Poverty, the Re-establishment of the Middle Class

    Quote Originally Posted by Mason66 View Post
    That is not the responsibility of the employeer.
    You tell me how an economy can prosper when consumer's aren't making enough money after living expenses to buy the products made. Ford's great genius was that he understood this.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: Elimination of Poverty, the Re-establishment of the Middle Class

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    You tell me how an economy can prosper when consumer's aren't making enough money after living expenses to buy the products made. Ford's great genius was that he understood this.
    OK, let's go with your idea.

    An employeer has to pay an employee according to how much money that employee needs to pay his bills and live well.

    Now, I believe that an employeer will only hire young people as they don't have many expenses and therefore the employeer will have to pay him less.

    Is that the kind of world you want?

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    Re: Elimination of Poverty, the Re-establishment of the Middle Class

    Quote Originally Posted by Mason66 View Post
    Is that the kind of world you want?
    The kind of world where people do not answer the question presented? No, it is not.

    The question was, "tell me how an economy can prosper when consumer's aren't making enough money after living expenses to buy the products made?"
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  9. #89
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    Re: Elimination of Poverty, the Re-establishment of the Middle Class

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    Henry Ford had to pay his employees such high wages because he had only mind-numbing work. Do you know the turnover in those jobs even with the high wages? It was incredibly high.

    Besides, if you don't price labor based on its subjective value, someone else will, and that person will provide lower prices for consumers. You are for lower prices, aren't you?
    I suppose a link to this "turnover" is forthcoming?
    Oracle of Utah
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  10. #90
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    Re: Elimination of Poverty, the Re-establishment of the Middle Class

    Quote Originally Posted by Mason66 View Post
    OK, let's go with your idea.

    An employeer has to pay an employee according to how much money that employee needs to pay his bills and live well.

    Now, I believe that an employeer will only hire young people as they don't have many expenses and therefore the employeer will have to pay him less.

    Is that the kind of world you want?
    actually, older people have less expenses, if you count children as expenes. they certainly are expensive....
    Oracle of Utah
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