View Poll Results: How To Eliminate Poverty, Re-establish the Middle-Class? Check all you agree with

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  • Government funded higher education just as other industrialized nations do

    29 35.37%
  • Cut out tax loopholes for the rich to benefit the lower and middle class

    37 45.12%
  • Start disallowing outsourcing to other countries for lower wages

    31 37.80%
  • Institute a flat tax

    34 41.46%
  • Disallow those in poverty to have children

    39 47.56%
  • This is not possible; we will always have poverty and no middle class

    15 18.29%
  • There should always be poverty

    9 10.98%
Multiple Choice Poll.
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Thread: Elimination of Poverty, the Re-establishment of the Middle Class

  1. #41
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    Re: Elimination of Poverty, the Re-establishment of the Middle Class

    Quote Originally Posted by LesGovt View Post
    MA, whew! I would think you could have been a little less biased in your poll options. I don't agree with any of the options.
    Your a conservative.. Why would you?? Anything to actually help the poor is just not an option and of course anyone who suggests helping the poor is of course bias..

    So how well did the tax cuts for the rich do?? What did we as a nation get for that 3.2 trillion spent on tax cuts for the rich?? Where are the jobs?? Where is the economy?? Where is the debt and deficit??

    Just about everything in the poll list needs to be done.. While we will always have some live in poverty.. It should be an issue of them living that way by choice for some religious thing and not because they don't have any options to better themselves..

    College should be free.. All education should be free.. Knowlege should be free.. Healthcare should be free.. 44,000 people die each year due to lack health insurance.. I am sure they aren't rich..

    There should be no loopholes of any kind.. For any tax bracket.. People that make 50k or less a year in income should be exempt from paying taxes.. That includes sales tax or any other tax..

    Since religion has failed in staying out of politics.. All churches need to start paying taxes for the people they employ and the profits they make..

    Dramatically increase the taxes on all imports for companies that out source jobs to other nations for cheap labor.. They want to sell their products here they can make it here as well.. This would only apply to companies that started their Existence as U.S. companies.. Foreign companies are not obligated to build their products here.. But again, Tarifs can be used to make sure that all foreign and domestic companies have a level playing field to sell their wares here..

    There should be a flat % tax rate.. No matter what your income, you pay 30% income tax on your income.. Again.. 50k or less do not pay taxes..

    I don't think the government should get into allowing or not allowing who can or can't have children..

    The income of the CEO of every company needs to be tied to the lowest paid person in their company.. No CEO can make more than 40 or 60 times the lowest wage earner in their company.. For privately owned companies this would work with the owners.. The key here is to make sure that when the rich people get a raise.. So does everyone else.. This will go along way with economy.. I am realitively certian that a dramatic cut in pay at the exective level will help with any payroll problem that most companies have..

    Education and healthcare need to be removed from the for profit arenas..

    Luxary taxes need to be assessed on multiple homes and private airplaines..

    Forcing companies to treat their employees fairly and equally will go a long way toward not needing unions.. No company should provide a pension for their employees.. All pension funds should go to Social Security to boost their retirement amount there.. Basically just an employee bill of rights is all that is needed..

    No bail outs.. If a company fails then it fails..

    There are a lot of creative things we can do with taxes to make sure people get hired and are working.. But the biggest issue is making sure every child, reguardless of who their parents are, has the same chances and opportunities.. We really need to level the playing field.. Companies would be a lot better off hiring someone who really has talent and not someone who was rich and with a titanium spoon up his butt..
    Last edited by DemonMyst; 07-23-11 at 08:32 PM.

  2. #42
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    Re: Elimination of Poverty, the Re-establishment of the Middle Class

    Quote Originally Posted by atrasicarius View Post
    You can define poverty like that, but you can also define it by things like being in danger of getting evicted, or not getting enough to eat, or not being able to afford medical bills. As I was just saying in another thread, I don't care if some people have more as long as everyone has enough.

    Defining "enough" is a big part of the problem. A medieval peasant, transported in time to 2011 and put in a government housing project, given welfare and food stamps, would marvel at having a fine home with no straw on the floor, no animal dung mixed in with it; a home that never really got unpleasantly hot or dangerously cold; with a magical stove that could cook a meal in minutes and a magical ice-box to preserve food and have cold drinks and ice in the summertime. Indoor plumbing would be a marvel to him. Electric lighting, TV... amazing. Rich food to eat, more meat than he could imagine, in exchange for little bits of paper someone sends him every month. Free healthcare at the county clinic so that he doesn't have to die of influenza or an abcess tooth in his 30s as so many medieval folks did.

    He'd almost think he'd died and gone to Heaven.


    But the modern poor set their standards far higher, mainly because they know there are many people who have more than they do.

    That's why "the poor will always be with us." The bottom 10% will always consider themselves "poor"... even when it is because they can't afford the latest-model robot-housekeeper, and have to settle for one that occasionally folds the clothes backwards.

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  3. #43
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    Re: Elimination of Poverty, the Re-establishment of the Middle Class

    truth. most of our "poor" are solid middle class by international standards or US standards a few decades ago. the plans under discussion in this thread will only serve to hurt the poor. Items that would actually help them don't seem to be desired.
    Last edited by cpwill; 07-23-11 at 09:10 PM.

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    Re: Elimination of Poverty, the Re-establishment of the Middle Class

    You see, I'm not worried about all of this recent talk of the distressed poor or middle class. once the economy starts rolling again and the middle class aren't victims anymore, the left will once again chastise the middle class for destroying the planet by living in suburbs, driving SUVs, and shopping at Wal-Mart.
    "Loyalty only matters when there's a hundred reasons not to be-" Gen. Mattis

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    Re: Elimination of Poverty, the Re-establishment of the Middle Class

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    Defining "enough" is a big part of the problem. A medieval peasant, transported in time to 2011 and put in a government housing project, given welfare and food stamps, would marvel at having a fine home with no straw on the floor, no animal dung mixed in with it; a home that never really got unpleasantly hot or dangerously cold; with a magical stove that could cook a meal in minutes and a magical ice-box to preserve food and have cold drinks and ice in the summertime. Indoor plumbing would be a marvel to him. Electric lighting, TV... amazing. Rich food to eat, more meat than he could imagine, in exchange for little bits of paper someone sends him every month. Free healthcare at the county clinic so that he doesn't have to die of influenza or an abcess tooth in his 30s as so many medieval folks did.

    He'd almost think he'd died and gone to Heaven.


    But the modern poor set their standards far higher, mainly because they know there are many people who have more than they do.

    That's why "the poor will always be with us." The bottom 10% will always consider themselves "poor"... even when it is because they can't afford the latest-model robot-housekeeper, and have to settle for one that occasionally folds the clothes backwards.
    The thing is, it's no so much about material goods as it is about abstract financial stuff. If someone is in danger of having their house taken away because of debt, then they're poor even if that house has an automatic yacht fabricator or something in it.
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  6. #46
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    Re: Elimination of Poverty, the Re-establishment of the Middle Class

    Quote Originally Posted by atrasicarius View Post
    The thing is, it's no so much about material goods as it is about abstract financial stuff. If someone is in danger of having their house taken away because of debt, then they're poor even if that house has an automatic yacht fabricator or something in it.
    Well, if that's the definition of "poor".... then there's a lot of middle-class-to-rich-ish people who are really "poor". I know quite a few people who live in a high-dollar gated subdivision with its own golf course, where the houses start at half a mil and go up from there... who are so heavily in debt and have so little savings that if they lost their high-paying job for 3 months they'd lose everything. I've known some who built a mansion in that subdivision then coiuldn't furnish it for lack of funds.

    Financial mismanagement knows no "class boundaries".

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  7. #47
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    Re: Elimination of Poverty, the Re-establishment of the Middle Class

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    Well, if that's the definition of "poor".... then there's a lot of middle-class-to-rich-ish people who are really "poor". I know quite a few people who live in a high-dollar gated subdivision with its own golf course, where the houses start at half a mil and go up from there... who are so heavily in debt and have so little savings that if they lost their high-paying job for 3 months they'd lose everything. I've known some who built a mansion in that subdivision then coiuldn't furnish it for lack of funds.

    Financial mismanagement knows no "class boundaries".
    A fair point. Maybe I should include the stipulation that they're forced into debt for some reason or another, rather than getting in due to their own stupidity. Medical bills are a common one.
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  8. #48
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    Re: Elimination of Poverty, the Re-establishment of the Middle Class

    Quote Originally Posted by WI Crippler View Post
    You see, I'm not worried about all of this recent talk of the distressed poor or middle class. once the economy starts rolling again and the middle class aren't victims anymore, the left will once again chastise the middle class for destroying the planet by living in suburbs, driving SUVs, and shopping at Wal-Mart.


    Great point.
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  9. #49
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    Re: Elimination of Poverty, the Re-establishment of the Middle Class

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    Well, if that's the definition of "poor".... then there's a lot of middle-class-to-rich-ish people who are really "poor". I know quite a few people who live in a high-dollar gated subdivision with its own golf course, where the houses start at half a mil and go up from there... who are so heavily in debt and have so little savings that if they lost their high-paying job for 3 months they'd lose everything. I've known some who built a mansion in that subdivision then coiuldn't furnish it for lack of funds.

    Financial mismanagement knows no "class boundaries".
    so true, I live in an area that 25 years ago was farm land-at best 4-5K an acre and now the lots next to me are going 110 an acre and that is a discount from what the seller/developer wanted before the bust. One of the cops I know had an ER to one of the big "HOMARAMA" (a show case of new homes in a single street or subdivision) that went for 975 and he said the upstairs was completely empty save the one bed time. The downstairs was furnished in the rooms you would come into for a party but not say the downstairs guest bedroom. People making a combined income of 250K a year are pretty comfortable in my area if they don't buy more than a 450-500K house

    when I went looking for my first house, my father noted that the conservative rule of thumb was you shouldn't have a mortgage 2X your annual income meaning if your salary was 90K a year and you had 20 for a downpayment, 200K home was what you should shoot for. THere are at least 1000 homes within a 5 mile circle from me that are over 500K and many close to a million- I doubt that many people are making between 250K and 500K



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    Re: Elimination of Poverty, the Re-establishment of the Middle Class

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    Defining "enough" is a big part of the problem. A medieval peasant, transported in time to 2011 and put in a government housing project, given welfare and food stamps, would marvel at having a fine home with no straw on the floor, no animal dung mixed in with it; a home that never really got unpleasantly hot or dangerously cold; with a magical stove that could cook a meal in minutes and a magical ice-box to preserve food and have cold drinks and ice in the summertime. Indoor plumbing would be a marvel to him. Electric lighting, TV... amazing. Rich food to eat, more meat than he could imagine, in exchange for little bits of paper someone sends him every month. Free healthcare at the county clinic so that he doesn't have to die of influenza or an abcess tooth in his 30s as so many medieval folks did.

    He'd almost think he'd died and gone to Heaven.


    But the modern poor set their standards far higher, mainly because they know there are many people who have more than they do.

    That's why "the poor will always be with us." The bottom 10% will always consider themselves "poor"... even when it is because they can't afford the latest-model robot-housekeeper, and have to settle for one that occasionally folds the clothes backwards.
    Did you miss my post?

    I already outlined why your analogy to medieval times is irrelevant.

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