View Poll Results: How To Eliminate Poverty, Re-establish the Middle-Class? Check all you agree with

Voters
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  • Government funded higher education just as other industrialized nations do

    29 35.37%
  • Cut out tax loopholes for the rich to benefit the lower and middle class

    37 45.12%
  • Start disallowing outsourcing to other countries for lower wages

    31 37.80%
  • Institute a flat tax

    34 41.46%
  • Disallow those in poverty to have children

    39 47.56%
  • This is not possible; we will always have poverty and no middle class

    15 18.29%
  • There should always be poverty

    9 10.98%
Multiple Choice Poll.
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Thread: Elimination of Poverty, the Re-establishment of the Middle Class

  1. #31
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    Re: Elimination of Poverty, the Re-establishment of the Middle Class

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post

    (poverty is relative, you see. Our "poor" in America today are better off than a prosperous medieval middle-class person, or half the people on the planet now, but still see themselves as poor because they're at the bottom. Also, attempting to eliminate income equality entirely or largely, would destroy incentive, stifle innovation and enterpreneurism and destroy the economy.)
    I see this argument made a lot. There are also new medical conditions (owed to our long lives and our industrial effects on environment), much poorer food choices (unless you are rich and can afford the best food), more people than at any time in history competing for the same resources, a more complex world where education is needed, and a social climate where excess is needed in order to relate (see: TV, computer, internet, cars to go places beyond your locale, etc.).

    I agree that poverty is relative. So are our living conditions and understandings of the world. Comparing the modern to the medieval is useless. We are several paradigms ahead of that way of life. The stakes are different and the game has changed. What is "needed" to live a basic life requires more work now than at any other point in history. Where people had no money but just farmed before, now you MUST have money to buy the necessities of life because most of the world lives in urban areas.

    The "haves" of our era have more than any other bourgeois in history. For the first time, the wealth of entire nations is held by non-government, private actors (see: the Federal Reserve, and the top 10 American corporations.) Not even the monarchies had to compete with that.

    This has nothing to do with eliminating poverty. That can never be done. Many people choose to live what one might call an impoverished lifestyle. They don't want to be part of the system; just as some people choose to be homeless. This is about income disparity, where 1% of our people are holding 3/4 of the cards while tens of millions are come down on by the same system invented by these people.

    I want to see FAIR application of the tax to EVERYONE. No loopholes. No lobbying government for bailouts. We either all play by the same rules or we don't.

  2. #32
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    Re: Elimination of Poverty, the Re-establishment of the Middle Class

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    people making lower middle class wages have far more creature comforts than the most powerful duke in 18th century england. those in walk in free clinics have better medicine than John Rockefeller.

    years ago I met a Masai prince in Kenya. he had gone to Oxford when an anglican priest who saw his potential helped him go to university. he came home to nairobi to work in the government but being Masai, not being Kikuyu he was unable to advance beyond what would be about a GS-11 in our federal service despite graduating with First Honors from one of the best universities in the known world

    so he gave it up when his father died and went back to be a leader of his people-no automobile, no 300 L suits, no briefcases and secretaries. rather a red sari, a spear and many head of cattle. I asked him if "being poorer" was upsetting. He just laughed and noted he was the richest man in the area. he had more cattle, a bigger hut and was respected. wealth he said was relative and while most would say having an air conditioned apartment and a land rover in Nairobi with a color TV set was wealth, he said many others there had more. in his environment he was the richest man
    Problem is this ain't the 18th century and it sure ain't Narobi.

    Although it is true poverty will always be with us.

    To handle poverty one must have tax revenue not only for corporations who need financial help but those that are in poverty.

    As far as being considered the richest person in America go to any unemployment office ask any of the unemloyed what is more important being rich or living comfortably?

    There are many average working Americans that are living on anywhere from 26 to 38 thousand a year and making it work.
    Many are living on poverty wage or minimum wage they make it some move up.

    Not counting small business who's profits never come close to that $100, 000 mark they make it profits may dip to 10,000 to 20.000 a year thy make it.

    Not only do they make it they help with the poverty problem.

    You take away their jobs and kill their small business you just put more people on the poverty list and less people to handle it.
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  3. #33
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    Re: Elimination of Poverty, the Re-establishment of the Middle Class

    Quote Originally Posted by presluc View Post
    Problem is this ain't the 18th century and it sure ain't Narobi.

    Although it is true poverty will always be with us.

    To handle poverty one must have tax revenue not only for corporations who need financial help but those that are in poverty.

    As far as being considered the richest person in America go to any unemployment office ask any of the unemloyed what is more important being rich or living comfortably?

    There are many average working Americans that are living on anywhere from 26 to 38 thousand a year and making it work.
    Many are living on poverty wage or minimum wage they make it some move up.

    Not counting small business who's profits never come close to that $100, 000 mark they make it profits may dip to 10,000 to 20.000 a year thy make it.

    Not only do they make it they help with the poverty problem.

    You take away their jobs and kill their small business you just put more people on the poverty list and less people to handle it.
    What is your understanding of what a "job" is



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    Re: Elimination of Poverty, the Re-establishment of the Middle Class

    I agree with TurtleDude. maybe there will always be poverty rather than there should be. With free will and over 350million people in the U.S. there will always be those who make VERY bad decisions that will result in poverty. Why should I pay for their mistakes.

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    Re: Elimination of Poverty, the Re-establishment of the Middle Class

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    What if people have enough, but have misplaced priorities, that make it look like they don't have enough?
    Any person living outside their means knows the cosiquences if priorties are not kept.

    Example your rent is due, you see a brand new upgrade cellphone you really want.
    Where does your money go if it goes to the cellphone and the rent is not paid you deserve to get evicted.
    I have no sypathy for these people math is math numbers don't lie.

    However if you're paying your rent on time and paying taxes and you get a 30 day notice that your job is going overseas and your wife is working as a waitress to save money you got 30 days to get a job paying the same wages you were getting after that eventualy you won't have enough money to pay the rent.
    6.3 million people haven't worked in half a year.
    Some say they aren't looking .
    That may be true for some , but all 6.3 million???
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  6. #36
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    Re: Elimination of Poverty, the Re-establishment of the Middle Class

    Quote Originally Posted by presluc View Post
    Any person living outside their means knows the cosiquences if priorties are not kept.

    Example your rent is due, you see a brand new upgrade cellphone you really want.
    Where does your money go if it goes to the cellphone and the rent is not paid you deserve to get evicted.
    I have no sypathy for these people math is math numbers don't lie.

    However if you're paying your rent on time and paying taxes and you get a 30 day notice that your job is going overseas and your wife is working as a waitress to save money you got 30 days to get a job paying the same wages you were getting after that eventualy you won't have enough money to pay the rent.
    6.3 million people haven't worked in half a year.
    Some say they aren't looking .
    That may be true for some , but all 6.3 million???
    If your job is specifically stated that it is going overseas, you get state paid education and unemployment benefits until that education is completed.

    Pretty good deal if you ask me.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
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    Re: Elimination of Poverty, the Re-establishment of the Middle Class

    Quote Originally Posted by presluc View Post
    Well too bad you could only vote one for me it was a toss up.

    Disallowing people in poverty to have children and disallowing outsourceing to other countries.

    I voted disallowing outsourceing to other countries.

    Even if you could disallow people in poverty to have children you would have to fight organized religion.
    I'm pretty sure you would have a bigger fight than that on your hands.

  8. #38
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    Re: Elimination of Poverty, the Re-establishment of the Middle Class

    Quote Originally Posted by ender1 View Post
    I agree with TurtleDude. maybe there will always be poverty rather than there should be. With free will and over 350million people in the U.S. there will always be those who make VERY bad decisions that will result in poverty. Why should I pay for their mistakes.
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  9. #39
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    Re: Elimination of Poverty, the Re-establishment of the Middle Class

    Government funded higher education just as other industrialized nations do
    I could support this if we restructured our educational system. I won't get into that now, that is a different thread entirely.

    # Cut out tax loopholes for the rich to benefit the lower and middle class
    I am for cutting loopholes but not necessarily for the purpose you gave. I believe in being fair and by allowing loopholes were persons can take advantage of the system is something that should not be permitted.

    # Start disallowing outsourcing to other countries for lower wages
    I would not disallow it but I would increase import taxes significantly making US labor more competitive.

    # Institute a flat tax
    I am all for a progressive flat tax on all income with no income credits.

    # Disallow those in poverty to have children
    I do not feel persons should have children if they need government assistance to support those children or pay for the medical bills associated with the birthing. But how to accomplish this in a reasonable manner?

    # This is not possible; we will always have poverty and no middle class
    We will always have poverty. Some people simply will never do for themselves.

    # There should always be poverty
    I believe so. Persons that refuse to help themselves should live with the consequences and not on the labor of others.

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    Re: Elimination of Poverty, the Re-establishment of the Middle Class

    Quote Originally Posted by MusicAdventurer View Post
    This pole was spurred by a thread I read and responded to regarding the birth control and the poor.

    This was the OP:
    MA, whew! I would think you could have been a little less biased in your poll options. I don't agree with any of the options.

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