View Poll Results: How To Eliminate Poverty, Re-establish the Middle-Class? Check all you agree with

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  • Government funded higher education just as other industrialized nations do

    29 35.37%
  • Cut out tax loopholes for the rich to benefit the lower and middle class

    37 45.12%
  • Start disallowing outsourcing to other countries for lower wages

    31 37.80%
  • Institute a flat tax

    34 41.46%
  • Disallow those in poverty to have children

    39 47.56%
  • This is not possible; we will always have poverty and no middle class

    15 18.29%
  • There should always be poverty

    9 10.98%
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Thread: Elimination of Poverty, the Re-establishment of the Middle Class

  1. #211
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    Re: Elimination of Poverty, the Re-establishment of the Middle Class

    Quote Originally Posted by evanescence View Post
    A flat tax would eliminate the need for the IRS which costs tax payers billions each year to fund.
    That would depend on how its implemented. It would eliminate the need for the IRS if it were in the form of a universal excise tax.

    It would also eliminate the need for exemptions, loopholes, and other tax anomalies.
    As would a simplified progressive tax.

    It would be an easier tax code to enforce and would cost much less to enforce. And best of all, it is fair.
    Fairness in the tax code is rather subjective.

    But, to answer DemSoc, I don't believe a flat tax eliminates poverty.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
    - Colonel Paul Yingling

  2. #212
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    Re: Elimination of Poverty, the Re-establishment of the Middle Class

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    That would depend on how its implemented. It would eliminate the need for the IRS if it were in the form of a universal excise tax.



    As would a simplified progressive tax.



    Fairness in the tax code is rather subjective.

    But, to answer DemSoc, I don't believe a flat tax eliminates poverty.
    Nothing will ever eliminate poverty. But there are things we can do to encourage growth, and taxes aren't one of them.
    “In politics, stupidity is not a handicap.” -Napoleon

  3. #213
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    Re: Elimination of Poverty, the Re-establishment of the Middle Class

    Quote Originally Posted by evanescence View Post
    Nothing will ever eliminate poverty. But there are things we can do to encourage growth, and taxes aren't one of them.
    I'd agree, i think TDS was just curious about why that option was included in the poll.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
    - Colonel Paul Yingling

  4. #214
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    Re: Elimination of Poverty, the Re-establishment of the Middle Class

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    why do people have a duty to fund the existence of people whose lot are in no way due to the fault of those who are so taxed?
    It is a function of the society you live in. It promotes social stability and social mobility to a higher degree then funding prisons and having 1% of the population either in prison or on probation
    k
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  5. #215
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    Re: Elimination of Poverty, the Re-establishment of the Middle Class

    Quote Originally Posted by evanescence View Post
    A flat tax would eliminate the need for the IRS which costs tax payers billions each year to fund. It would also eliminate the need for exemptions, loopholes, and other tax anomalies. It would be an easier tax code to enforce and would cost much less to enforce. And best of all, it is fair.
    The IRS would still exist. It would have to exist to ensure those that owe taxes pay taxes. It could be smaller but it would still exist. Any tax system would require people to administer it.
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  6. #216
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    Re: Elimination of Poverty, the Re-establishment of the Middle Class

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Tammerlain View Post
    The IRS would still exist. It would have to exist to ensure those that owe taxes pay taxes. It could be smaller but it would still exist. Any tax system would require people to administer it.
    I believe that could be done with a smaller agency instead of the IRS. I would scrap that all together-but I'm just dreaming. None of this will ever happen.
    “In politics, stupidity is not a handicap.” -Napoleon

  7. #217
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    Re: Elimination of Poverty, the Re-establishment of the Middle Class

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Tammerlain View Post
    It is a function of the society you live in. It promotes social stability and social mobility to a higher degree then funding prisons and having 1% of the population either in prison or on probation
    k
    the war on poverty didn't decrease crime.



  8. #218
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    Re: Elimination of Poverty, the Re-establishment of the Middle Class

    Quote Originally Posted by evanescence View Post
    Nothing will ever eliminate poverty. But there are things we can do to encourage growth, and taxes aren't one of them.
    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    That would depend on how its implemented. It would eliminate the need for the IRS if it were in the form of a universal excise tax.



    As would a simplified progressive tax.



    Fairness in the tax code is rather subjective.

    But, to answer DemSoc, I don't believe a flat tax eliminates poverty.


    Poverty in the US comes in two styles

    Absolute, and relative

    Absolute poverty would be the kind of poverty you would see in third world slums. This is extremely limited in the US. Seen in the homeless and perhaps some rural communties (mostly native)

    Relative poverty is the type that most refer to when discussing poverty in the US (or most developed countries for that matter). Relative poverty still means a lifestyle far better then that of those living in absolute poverty. Relative poverty will never be eliminated due to the way poverty is calculated in most countries. Does that mean we should stop trying no, but it does mean that society should not provide income support for those who are buying Harley Davidison motorcyles ( Earned Income tax credit). It should mean that the home that those in poverty are living in are generally safe, have running water, access to the sewer system. In other words habitable. It should mean they wont be starving, or malnourished through a money to buy food (whether they have good eating habits or not is another matter). It means that their childern should have access to a good education, it means they and all people should have access to basic health care.
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  9. #219
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    Re: Elimination of Poverty, the Re-establishment of the Middle Class

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Tammerlain View Post
    Poverty in the US comes in two styles

    Absolute, and relative

    Absolute poverty would be the kind of poverty you would see in third world slums. This is extremely limited in the US. Seen in the homeless and perhaps some rural communties (mostly native)

    Relative poverty is the type that most refer to when discussing poverty in the US (or most developed countries for that matter). Relative poverty still means a lifestyle far better then that of those living in absolute poverty. Relative poverty will never be eliminated due to the way poverty is calculated in most countries. Does that mean we should stop trying no, but it does mean that society should not provide income support for those who are buying Harley Davidison motorcyles ( Earned Income tax credit). It should mean that the home that those in poverty are living in are generally safe, have running water, access to the sewer system. In other words habitable. It should mean they wont be starving, or malnourished through a money to buy food (whether they have good eating habits or not is another matter). It means that their childern should have access to a good education, it means they and all people should have access to basic health care.
    And most of the poor in this country have all of that and more. I support food stamps, but I would limit what people can buy with them. I support public housing, but I would limit how long people can live in public housing. Some families have been there for generations and have no intention of moving out. I have no problem helping those who need it, but are also willing to help themselves. That being said, with the economy the way it is, and unemployment being so high, expecting people to get themselves out of poverty at this point is too high of an expectation for the most part. There is no such thing as a jobless recovery.
    “In politics, stupidity is not a handicap.” -Napoleon

  10. #220
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    Re: Elimination of Poverty, the Re-establishment of the Middle Class

    Quote Originally Posted by evanescence View Post
    And most of the poor in this country have all of that and more. I support food stamps, but I would limit what people can buy with them. I support public housing, but I would limit how long people can live in public housing. Some families have been there for generations and have no intention of moving out. I have no problem helping those who need it, but are also willing to help themselves. That being said, with the economy the way it is, and unemployment being so high, expecting people to get themselves out of poverty at this point is too high of an expectation for the most part. There is no such thing as a jobless recovery.
    I have no problem with programs such as workfare instead of welfare. Which requires those that are able bodied and or minded to work for the government assistance, or take training course for it.
    Happy Hanukkah Cheerfull Kwanzaa
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