View Poll Results: How To Eliminate Poverty, Re-establish the Middle-Class? Check all you agree with

Voters
82. You may not vote on this poll
  • Government funded higher education just as other industrialized nations do

    29 35.37%
  • Cut out tax loopholes for the rich to benefit the lower and middle class

    37 45.12%
  • Start disallowing outsourcing to other countries for lower wages

    31 37.80%
  • Institute a flat tax

    34 41.46%
  • Disallow those in poverty to have children

    39 47.56%
  • This is not possible; we will always have poverty and no middle class

    15 18.29%
  • There should always be poverty

    9 10.98%
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Thread: Elimination of Poverty, the Re-establishment of the Middle Class

  1. #181
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    Re: Elimination of Poverty, the Re-establishment of the Middle Class

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    if you take the money spent on poverty reduction, and divide it by the number of poor people in this country, you have enough to raise each individual above the poverty line.

    i submit that if we aren't seeing those kinds of results with that kind of spending, maybe we aren't doing it right....
    Sorry, but if a program costing $2 trillion isn't working, the government's solution is to spend $4 trillion and see if it works. It never has but that's still what they do. Discontinue the program and try something else? You're crazy.

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    Re: Elimination of Poverty, the Re-establishment of the Middle Class

    Quote Originally Posted by earthworm View Post
    36 responded with "disallow those in poverty from having children".
    What kind of people do we have here ?
    Tea baggers ?
    The term is tea partiers or Tea Party members. And, no, what you have here are the control freaks, also known as liberals. You know, no Happy Meals, no goldfish, no birdfeeders, and no hope.

  3. #183
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    Re: Elimination of Poverty, the Re-establishment of the Middle Class

    Quote Originally Posted by Patrickt View Post
    The term is tea partiers or Tea Party members. And, no, what you have here are the control freaks, also known as liberals. You know, no Happy Meals, no goldfish, no birdfeeders, and no hope.
    i'm cool with goldfish.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
    - Colonel Paul Yingling

  4. #184
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    Re: Elimination of Poverty, the Re-establishment of the Middle Class

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    OK, so I've been gone a while, and got a little behind on this thread. Skimming some of the posts, reading here and there, it appears that there are some people arguing that we actually have equality of opportunity.

    The kid who grew up without a dad, mom on welfare, in the middle of gang territory, has the same opportunity as the one who grew up in a nuclear family with adequate resources to provide food, shelter, education, medical care, perhaps a little entertainment and some travel.

    Surely, no one is arguing such a thing, are they?

    I must be mistaken.
    No, there is no equality of opportunity. Some people are born smart. Some are born stupid. Some are born healthy. Some are born sickly. Some are born handsome. Some are born ugly. No, they don't all have equal opportunity. But unlike what the liberals teach, they sure all have opportunity. I know people who were born millionaires and are broke. I know people who were born broke and are millionaires. I'm no millionaire but when my grandmother said, "Patrick, it's not your fault we're poor but it's sure you fault if you act poorly," she spoke the truth.

    The liberals don't know how to make opportunities but they've learned how to make poor people. First, no intact family. Lie and tell the girls that the government can be a better partner than that guy. You know, "a woman needs a man like a fish needs a bicycle." Second, cater to the teachers' unions who pay you a bundle and let the poor kids go to hell. Make sure the leading cause of death for young black males is homicide, tell them constantly they can't get along without the government, and watch the hopelessness rot them. Lastly, make sure everyone lives well beyond their means. Hey, there never is a reckoning.

    The liberals should be proud of themselves. I think it's evil to deny people hope.
    Last edited by Patrickt; 07-31-11 at 03:21 PM.

  5. #185
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    Re: Elimination of Poverty, the Re-establishment of the Middle Class

    Quote Originally Posted by Patrickt View Post
    No, there is no equality of opportunity. Some people are born smart. Some are born stupid. Some are born healthy. Some are born sickly. Some are born handsome. Some are born ugly. No, they don't all have equal opportunity. But unlike what the liberals teach, they sure all have opportunity. I know people who were born millionaires and are broke. I know people who were born broke and are millionaires. I'm no millionaire but when my grandmother said, "Patrick, it's not your fault we're poor but it's sure you fault if you act poorly," she spoke the truth.

    The liberals don't know how to make opportunities but they've learned how to make poor people. First, no intact family. Lie and tell the girls they the government can be a better partner than that guy. You know, "a woman needs a man like a fish needs a bicycle." Second, cater to the teachers' unions who pay you a bundle and let the poor kids go to hell. Make sure the leading cause of death for young black males is homicide, tell them constantly they can't get along without the government, and watch the hopelessness rot them. Lastly, make sure everyone lives well beyond their means. Hey, there never is a reckoning.

    The liberals should be proud of themselves.
    1) Just because a relationship is same-sex doesn't mean it isn't "intact"

    2) Is there any evidence to actually prove your point that a man you don't love is a better partner than a woman you do?
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
    - Colonel Paul Yingling

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    Re: Elimination of Poverty, the Re-establishment of the Middle Class

    A multimillionaire told me I didn't have enough money to retire. I said I thought I did and he said, "I have a lot more than you do and I don't have enough."

    "How much is enough, Brian?" He stood there a moment with glazed eyes and said, "Well, I'm not sure. But, I know I don't have enough."

    So, folks, for you, how much is enough? A number. What's the number for you? When you think of a number, remember, no matter what, you have to pay your taxes.

  7. #187
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    Re: Elimination of Poverty, the Re-establishment of the Middle Class

    There should always be poverty.

    There are people who win the lottery, or make a hit record and make millions, who end up in poverty. What the hell do you think you're going to do to eliminate that...take their money and keep them from it, but say it's their money, so you can eliminate poverty? In what universe does that make sense?

    It's a load of ****. You should, ethically, want freedom, and freedom maximized for everyone. The big challenge is just how to handle when those rights clash. It's never about poverty, because if someone is free to live on less than you arbitrarily decide the poverty level is, you have to ethically be in support of that. If a new-age hippie wants to live off roadkill and sleep in a tent, I think people have died to protect that right.
    Last edited by Mach; 07-31-11 at 03:13 PM.

  8. #188
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    Re: Elimination of Poverty, the Re-establishment of the Middle Class

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    my bet would be, no.

    what produces happiness? strong family. looking at achievement. the wealthy are happier? i dunno, are we happier than our ancestors who were poorer?
    Strong family and achievement. Exactly. Being able to look at your life with pride of accomplishment. Having people who love you that you can lean on, and that can lean on you. That is what makes us happy.

    Of course, not having to worry about putting food on the table, and being able to pay our bills helps a lot, too, but having great wealth? That doesn't seem to help all that much. Look at Winston's example.

    Whatever you might think of California's ex governor, he does have a sense of humor: "Money doesn't bring happiness. Last year, I had 48 million this year I have 50. I'm no happier."
    "Donald Trump is a phony, a fraud... [he's] playing the American public for suckers." Mitt Romney

  9. #189
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    Re: Elimination of Poverty, the Re-establishment of the Middle Class

    Quote Originally Posted by Patrickt View Post
    A multimillionaire told me I didn't have enough money to retire. I said I thought I did and he said, "I have a lot more than you do and I don't have enough."

    "How much is enough, Brian?" He stood there a moment with glazed eyes and said, "Well, I'm not sure. But, I know I don't have enough."

    So, folks, for you, how much is enough? A number. What's the number for you? When you think of a number, remember, no matter what, you have to pay your taxes.
    There are calculations that can be made that tell you what you should need for retirement. I used Excel to calculate what income I needed in today's dollars and calculated inflation for the future. Taxes were included as well as future big time expenses, such as cars. I then ran the calculations by my financial advisor and retired with the assuredness that I could do it. So far, so good.

    As for a specific number, that would vary upon each individual's needs and wants.
    Last edited by LesGovt; 07-31-11 at 05:21 PM.

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    Re: Elimination of Poverty, the Re-establishment of the Middle Class

    Quote Originally Posted by Patrickt View Post
    ............... what you have here are the control freaks, also known as liberals.
    Patrickt, my many observations in the non-political arena, esp. in business, the conservatives tended to be the control freaks and the liberals advocated simpler and less control. I think that the conservatives donít like their control coming from the government, but approve of control that comes from church, synagogue, temple etc.

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