Are certain "classes" targeted more than others?

[ThePlayDrive]

Do you think that certain economic classes are being targeted in some way more than other classes?

I answered "yes", although I wouldn't call it "class warfare" because that hypothesizes intent where I'm not sure it exists. I came to my conclusion based on three observations:

In a bad economy where "sacrifices have to be made":

1. Corporations are paying little to no taxes.
2. Republicans and some Democrats don't think people with high levels of disposable income should have higher taxes.
3. Middle class union works are instructed to "make sacrifices", give up their collective bargaining and take pay cuts.

In other words, the middle class is expected to "make sacrifices", but the upper classes shouldn't have to make sacrifices because it's their money.

Note: #3 would be perfectly fine and not an example of a targeted class if it didn't coexist with #1 and #2.

Please share your arguments and your evidence or explain where I've gotten my assessment wrong without belittling other people as that is unnecessary for making a valid argument.

 

[tessaesque]

When a union member is asked to "sacrifice" it is usually in the area of benefits, which (on average) they pay far less for than any non-union, rich, or poor worker in this country. Typically, the union members asked to make that sacrifice are public employees, who (on average) also make 1.5 times more than their private-sector counter parts. Additionally, union members only make up 8% of the working population and therefore do not consitute a large enough number to be representative of the entire middle class.

 

[cpwill]

well, look at the threads.


"here is what we could do if we took all the money from the richest of the rich!"

"do the rich need protection?"

"shouldn't we raise taxes on the rich?"

"rich not paying their fair share"

"rich getting richer"



and so on and so forth. it's like a weird fetish with some people.

 

[lpast]

The working class is absolutely being targeted. The big guys on wall street, the bankers etc caused this malais then got billions of our money in bailouts because they were too big to fail...and now its all the fault of public workers, Social Security recipients and medicare and medicaid recepients says the rich greedy callous teaparty snotnoses....whos kidding who this is absolutely class warfare from the top down. Anyone that falls for this crap that isnt one of the rich that benefits from it...is just plain dumb or nuts.

The teaparty is not only bashing public workers and trying to take from seniors on the national stage via the house....you have newly elected teaparty governors attacking the working class on state levels and giving huge tax breaks to the wealthy and corporations....all the evidence is right there out in the open to see....the teaparty puts no shade on what their goals are.

 

[cpwill]

ladies and gentlemen of the court I present Evidence Exhibit A.

 

[lpast]

When a union member is asked to "sacrifice" it is usually in the area of benefits, which (on average) they pay far less for than any non-union, rich, or poor worker in this country. Typically, the union members asked to make that sacrifice are public employees, who (on average) also make 1.5 times more than their private-sector counter parts. Additionally, union members only make up 8% of the working population and therefore do not consitute a large enough number to be representative of the entire middle class.

Tess wisconsin, New Jersey, Florida, Ohio those govs not only took benefits but increased costs HUGELY for the working class and in some cases lowered their pension dramtically like in NJ. Then they have the house attacking them on a national level.

Remember something Tess that you will never hear from CPWILL or turtledude or any of the other right wing stand to benefit from the working class getting screwed people on here.. It was but a few years ago the private sector was FAR ahead of the public sector, in pay and equal in benefits....in the last 15 yrs out of greed companies have lowered pays in comparison to cost of living and stripped workers of benefits like pensions and stuck them into easily market manipulated 401ks...the private sector workers that werent stripped of benefits had huge costs shifted to them....these same companies profits have SOARED...public employees are NOT OVERPAID...its you in the private sector that are underpaid to the benefit of the pigs at the trough....private sector workers stood by like lambs as they were being raped...so now they make less than public employees and its THEIR OWN DAMN FAULT...aside from that if they are that envious apply to be a police officer see if you can make the grade

 

[The Rev Kros]

The United States spends too much money.
Period.
No amount of taxes will ever balance that budget.

Here is a good link explaining why:
Eat the Rich | CNSnews.com

If we took all corporate profits, it would only run the government for 40 days.
If we imposed a 100% tax on all earnings above $250,000 a year it would keep the government running for 141 days.
That is only to about the end of June.

If we took every cent of every billionaire in the United States and sold all their assets, we would only get to mid-August.

Moar Taxes are not the answer.

 

[tessaesque]

Tess wisconsin, New Jersey, Florida, Ohio those govs not only took benefits but increased costs HUGELY for the working class and in some cases lowered their pension dramtically like in NJ. Then they have the house attacking them on a national level.

Remember something Tess that you will never hear from CPWILL or turtledude or any of the other right wing stand to benefit from the working class getting screwed people on here.. It was but a few years ago the private sector was FAR ahead of the public sector, in pay and equal in benefits....in the last 15 yrs out of greed companies have lowered pays in comparison to cost of living and stripped workers of benefits like pensions and stuck them into easily market manipulated 401ks...the private sector workers that werent stripped of benefits had huge costs shifted to them....these same companies profits have SOARED...public employees are NOT OVERPAID...its you in the private sector that are underpaid to the benefit of the pigs at the trough....private sector workers stood by like lambs as they were being raped...so now they make less than public employees and its THEIR OWN DAMN FAULT...aside from that if they are that envious apply to be a police officer see if you can make the grade

I'm sorry, dude...we have diametrically opposed views on this. I have to chalk it up to our basic understanding of the issue, but you're not swaying me here. Public sector workers in many of the states you're listing paid less than 7% (some less than 4%) for their insurance and retirement benefits. It should not be the responsibility of the company or the tax payers to provide for the health and retirement of any employee. If a private corporation wants to offer such benefits (and many do, I've worked for a few of them) then more power to them. When the government wants to do it through my tax dollars, when the debt is increasing almost $2T a year and that govt employee makes 1.5x my very liveable wage for the same job?? I have a problem. If the government were profitable, or breaking even, or making efforts to reign in the debt? Maybe. But I'm responsible for providing for myself, not for portions of the benefits of 310 billion other people. The worker has the responsibility to invest, save, and earn for their retirement, to pay premiums on insurance for medical coverage. I'm very sorry if they feel attacked because they must now contribute 10% for their pensions and healthcare...but it isn't highway robbery.

 

[lpast]

I'm sorry, dude...we have diametrically opposed views on this. I have to chalk it up to our basic understanding of the issue, but you're not swaying me here. Public sector workers in many of the states you're listing paid less than 7% (some less than 4%) for their insurance and retirement benefits. It should not be the responsibility of the company or the tax payers to provide for the health and retirement of any employee. If a private corporation wants to offer such benefits (and many do, I've worked for a few of them) then more power to them. When the government wants to do it through my tax dollars, when the debt is increasing almost $2T a year and that govt employee makes 1.5x my very liveable wage for the same job?? I have a problem. The work has the responsibility to invest, save, and earn for their retirement, to pay premiums on insurance for medical coverage. I'm very sorry if they feel attacked because they must now contribute 10% for their pensions and healthcare...but it isn't highway robbery.

Well your wrong and ill chalk that up to our basic understanding. New Jersey public workers always paid HALF their pension ALWAYS...they have been paying a copay for ther health benefits...that was dramatically increased by 8,000 a year by christiem, thats a huge pay cut....he increased the employee payment above 50% per payday for their pension and left his the same and he hasnt made the states payment which amounts to 34billion in two years, he increased the retirement age by YEARS, he mangled them..Im sure you and others like that.....look no sense going over this because people have one mindset and that is screw public workers because private workers have been raped...

You didnt address how in 15-20 yrs the private sector went from earning considerably more than the private sector to sucking wind...so now after the pigs at the trough raped private sector workers.. they now blame public sector workers for all the countries woes including unemployment and now want to strip public workers and the private sector workers are all happy someone else is getting screwed like they did instead of fighting for themselves....well tess...Ill make you a prediction, this may work in the very short term...but it will all get turned around.

Even then thats not enough for them...they stripped private sector workers now theyre stripping public sector workers...but they want more...they want to abolish social security for all private and public and medicare for private and public workers and they want TAX CUTS on top of it..
Ok tess your right im a stone cold moron that doesnt have the simple intelligence to understand how wonderful corporations and the rich have been to me.. and I dont have the intelligence to understand how much All worker entitlements and public workers need to be demolished for the good of the country....Somehow im too damn dumb to see that its the working class that caused our great country to fall into this ruin and that our only salvation is to give huge tax cuts to the rich and corporations...damn I wish I was alot smarter

 

[tessaesque]

Well your wrong and ill chalk that up to our basic understanding. New Jersey public workers always paid HALF their pension ALWAYS...they have been paying a copay for ther health benefits...that was dramatically increased by 8,000 a year by christiem, thats a huge pay cut....he increased the employee payment above 50% per payday for their pension and left his the same and he hasnt made the states payment which amounts to 34billion in two years, he increased the retirement age by YEARS, he mangled them..Im sure you and others like that.....look no sense going over this because people have one mindset and that is screw public workers because private workers have been raped...

You didnt address how in 15-20 yrs the private sector went from earning considerably more than the private sector to sucking wind...so now after the pigs at the trough raped private sector workers.. they now blame public sector workers for all the countries woes including unemployment and now want to strip public workers and the private sector workers are all happy someone else is getting screwed like they did instead of fighting for themselves....well tess...Ill make you a prediction, this may work in the very short term...but it will all get turned around.

Bollocks:

The bill effectively ends collective bargaining for medical benefits on behalf of 500,000 public workers.

Police, firefighters, teachers, and all public workers will pay more for their benefits. The new bill:

Requires current employees to give up more of their salary into the pension system.
Eliminates annual cost of living increases.
Pays a percentage of their health care premiums in a tiered system based on their salary.
Requires new employees to work longer to get full benefits.
Contractually requires the state to make payments into the health fund.
Appoints a labor-management board system to be put in place to monitor the system.
Removes up the governor's right to impose a contract and instead appoint a mediator if impasses arise.
Effective immediately teachers and state employees will increase their pension contributions from 5.5% to 6.5% with another 1% increase phased in over seven years.

State police, firefighters, and municipal law enforcement will increase their contributions from 8.5% of their salary to 10%.

Judges will see increases from 3% to 12% contributions.

Link here

Also, the collective bargaining on health insurance is suspended, not eliminated entirely. AND, the required increase in contributions is based on a sliding scale relating to income. So if you earn more, you pay more. Those clamouring for the "rich" to take more of the burden should be pleased with that.

 

[haymarket]

well, look at the threads.


"here is what we could do if we took all the money from the richest of the rich!"

"do the rich need protection?"

"shouldn't we raise taxes on the rich?"

"rich not paying their fair share"

"rich getting richer"



and so on and so forth. it's like a weird fetish with some people.

What the far right may call a "weird fetish" others would simply identify as a legitimate concern with the tax structure and the shifting of America towards a dangerous two class system.

 

[lpast]

Bollocks:



Link here

Also, the collective bargaining on health insurance is suspended, not eliminated entirely. AND, the required increase in contributions is based on a sliding scale relating to income. So if you earn more, you pay more. Those clamouring for the "rich" to take more of the burden should be pleased with that.

Read more: New Jersey Makes It Official: The Slashing Of Public Employee Benefits Has Begun


State police, firefighters, and municipal law enforcement will increase their contributions from 8.5% of their salary to 10%. Now understand that the employee paid 8.5 and the state or municipality matched it...thats a full 50% paid by the employee and has always been that way....now its 10% and the agency pays 8.5.
Tess your no different than the other cheerleaders here...who blow past everyone elses points...Christie hasnt made his portion of the pension payment in two years which is 34billion dollars...and hes touting he has a surplus...hes outright screwing the workers...period...but thats just perfect to you right ? New Jersey had the richest PENSION IN THE WORLD until they stopped paying THEIR PORTION into it...while the public workers always paid their half
The sliding scale for health benefits is bogus...most every employee will pay the max...which is 8,000...he increased the retirement age. He took Cost of living increases from all retirees...which was only 60% of the COLA for social security. He will lose that in court.
That article doesnt address the corporate tax cuts christie gave out along with reduced taxs for the wealthiest New Jersyans...he gave panasonic corportation 100 million to move down the street....

You havent addressed how private sector workers went from making more than public sector workers with similar benefits to making less with no benefits in 15-20 yrs while Corporate profits soard the rich got far richer...

 

[tessaesque]

Read more: New Jersey Makes It Official: The Slashing Of Public Employee Benefits Has Begun


State police, firefighters, and municipal law enforcement will increase their contributions from 8.5% of their salary to 10%. Now understand that the employee paid 8.5 and the state or municipality matched it...thats a full 50% paid by the employee and has always been that way....now its 10% and the agency pays 8.5.
Tess your no different than the other cheerleaders here...who blow past everyone elses points...Christie hasnt made his portion of the pension payment in two years which is 34billion dollars...and hes touting he has a surplus...hes outright screwing the workers...period...but thats just perfect to you right ? New Jersey had the richest PENSION IN THE WORLD until they stopped paying THEIR PORTION into it...while the public workers always paid their half
The sliding scale for health benefits is bogus...most every employee will pay the max...which is 8,000...he increased the retirement age. He took Cost of living increases from all retirees...which was only 60% of the COLA for social security. He will lose that in court.
That article doesnt address the corporate tax cuts christie gave out along with reduced taxs for the wealthiest New Jersyans...he gave panasonic corportation 100 million to move down the street....

You havent addressed how private sector workers went from making more than public sector workers with similar benefits to making less with no benefits in 15-20 yrs while Corporate profits soard the rich got far richer...

Not debating with you if you want to be uncivil and childish. I was very polite in stating that I disagreed with you. You want to use generalizations and stupid labels and act as though I don't know because I don't agree? That's fine, but now you're talking to yourself.

 

[lpast]

Not debating with you if you want to be uncivil and childish. I was very polite in stating that I disagreed with you. You want to use generalizations and stupid labels and act as though I don't know because I don't agree? That's fine, but now you're talking to yourself.

Ive been talking to myself

I'm sorry, dude...we have diametrically opposed views on this. I have to chalk it up to our basic understanding of the issue....sorry tess but that didnt sound very polite to me...and I stand by you dont know and you havent addressed any points that I made...

 

[lpast]

Piggys poll numbers are dropping because of his assault on the working class..

Gov. Christie's disapproval rating jumps to 53 percent, poll says | NJ.com

 

[earthworm]

When a union member is asked to "sacrifice" it is usually in the area of benefits, which (on average) they pay far less for than any non-union, rich, or poor worker in this country. Typically, the union members asked to make that sacrifice are public employees, who (on average) also make 1.5 times more than their private-sector counter parts. Additionally, union members only make up 8% of the working population and therefore do not constitute a large enough number to be representative of the entire middle class.

True, IMO.
And the GM CEO did himself sacrifice during the dark days of restructuring.
This General Motors executive "worked" for "nothing".
Of course, in the previous years he was being compensated generously, so living off his "fat" was no problem.
But, generally, I have seen too much being asked of the working class while the wealthy become even more so.
Lets try to be fair about things.
This applies to all.

 

[earthworm]

well, look at the threads.


"here is what we could do if we took all the money from the richest of the rich!"

"do the rich need protection?"

"shouldn't we raise taxes on the rich?"

"rich not paying their fair share"

"rich getting richer"



and so on and so forth. it's like a weird fetish with some people.

In order for man to progress, he must know right from wrong.
IMO, he does not.

 

[lpast]

In order for man to progress, he must know right from wrong.
IMO, he does not.

Its easy to cherry pick posts...if you cherry picked the corporate cheerleader posts here...you would see

The rich pay to much...even though they pay less than they ever did
The rich create jobs....yeah where ? china
The rich pay all the taxs....bs

and on and on...cherrypicking is just that

 

[earthworm]

ladies and gentlemen of the court I present Evidence Exhibit A.

I'll guess that "exhibit A" is NOT the fact that we have more millionaires than ever before...
And, is this not true ?
Have no fear, I do know that a fool and his money are soon parted....I, IMO, am that fool...

 

[earthworm]

The United States spends too much money.
Period.
No amount of taxes will ever balance that budget.

Here is a good link explaining why:
Eat the Rich | CNSnews.com

If we took all corporate profits, it would only run the government for 40 days.
If we imposed a 100% tax on all earnings above $250,000 a year it would keep the government running for 141 days.
That is only to about the end of June.

If we took every cent of every billionaire in the United States and sold all their assets, we would only get to mid-August.

Moar Taxes are not the answer.

Increasing the taxes to those of the Bill Clinton Era is but 5 to 10% of the answer..
But, we must be fair about things.
In truth does "waste" exist ?
For hundreds of years departments(public and private) have been chided about waste..
I do know,IMO, that some waste exists..despite all efforts...
An example of this is the ultra wealthy Arab who has inscribed his name in the sand...millions of American dollars wasted....while people starve in Africa...
How many people truly know what "fair" means ???

 

[cpwill]

What the far right may call a "weird fetish" others would simply identify as a legitimate concern with the tax structure and the shifting of America towards a dangerous two class system.

the main two "classes" I see developing in America are the takers and the makers. Increasingly, it's the party of government v the party of enterprise.

 

[cpwill]

I'll guess that "exhibit A" is NOT the fact that we have more millionaires than ever before...

no, because currently it's not true. you are thinking 2007ish time frame. as for more millionaires, we should welcome them - it means more of our people are becoming well off.

 

[American]

Do you think that certain economic classes are being targeted in some way more than other classes?

I answered "yes", although I wouldn't call it "class warfare" because that hypothesizes intent where I'm not sure it exists. I came to my conclusion based on three observations:

In a bad economy where "sacrifices have to be made":

1. Corporations are paying little to no taxes.
2. Republicans and some Democrats don't think people with high levels of disposable income should have higher taxes.
3. Middle class union works are instructed to "make sacrifices", give up their collective bargaining and take pay cuts.

In other words, the middle class is expected to "make sacrifices", but the upper classes shouldn't have to make sacrifices because it's their money.

Note: #3 would be perfectly fine and not an example of a targeted class if it didn't coexist with #1 and #2.

Please share your arguments and your evidence or explain where I've gotten my assessment wrong without belittling other people as that is unnecessary for making a valid argument.

So the entire middle class work for public unions? Amazing. :roll:

 

[tessaesque]

Its easy to cherry pick posts...if you cherry picked the corporate cheerleader posts here...you would see

The rich pay to much...even though they pay less than they ever did
The rich create jobs....yeah where ? china
The rich pay all the taxs....bs

and on and on...cherrypicking is just that

I don't see people saying the rich pay too much. I see people saying that the automatic jump to "tax the rich" is unwise and unnecessary.

Rich people own companies which employ workers, that's where jobs come from...That, and the 200k a year contractor with a team of 4 employees who builds and remodels houses, and had to lay them off in the recession because nobody wants to spend that kind of money (including the uber rich).

When regulations, taxes, or union obligations become too cumbersome to the company's profit (the reason companies exist, and rightly so), the jobs go out of state or overseas. When Michigan raised taxes on businesses the businesses left...now Michigan has one of the highest unemployment rates in the country.

The "rich" put in more than 70% of the total funding received by the federal government via incomes taxes. Even when you throw in consumption taxes, property taxes, etc..the rich still pay more of the total obligation than the middle class or poor classes.

 

[TurtleDude]

The working class is absolutely being targeted. The big guys on wall street, the bankers etc caused this malais then got billions of our money in bailouts because they were too big to fail...and now its all the fault of public workers, Social Security recipients and medicare and medicaid recepients says the rich greedy callous teaparty snotnoses....whos kidding who this is absolutely class warfare from the top down. Anyone that falls for this crap that isnt one of the rich that benefits from it...is just plain dumb or nuts.

The teaparty is not only bashing public workers and trying to take from seniors on the national stage via the house....you have newly elected teaparty governors attacking the working class on state levels and giving huge tax breaks to the wealthy and corporations....all the evidence is right there out in the open to see....the teaparty puts no shade on what their goals are.

so all those working class people who constantly vote for more and more spending has nothing to do with the problems>?