View Poll Results: Should the US keep one shuttle operational till the next generation?

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  • Yes! Keep one operational

    21 60.00%
  • No! Get rid of all of them

    12 34.29%
  • Other / I dont know

    2 5.71%
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Thread: Leave one Space Shuttle Operational?

  1. #41
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    Re: Leave one Space Shuttle Operational?

    Quote Originally Posted by ksu_aviator View Post
    You talk about how the shuttle is out dated and then refer to the Russians as the prime example? Their space craft can't even land. It has very little cargo room. It is preshuttle technology.
    The Russians built their own space shuttle, the Buran, that could not only land but land w/out any pilots.

    They scrapped it because it wasn't worth the investment, a fact which NASA has only now realized.

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    Re: Leave one Space Shuttle Operational?

    Quote Originally Posted by solletica View Post
    The Russians built their own space shuttle, the Buran, that could not only land but land w/out any pilots.

    They scrapped it because it wasn't worth the investment, a fact which NASA has only now realized.
    Actually it was scrapped because Gorbachev did not like space programs. Besides, it was just a shuttle knock off...it was embarrassing for them to just be copying the Americans rather than creating their own technology.
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  3. #43
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    Re: Leave one Space Shuttle Operational?

    Quote Originally Posted by solletica View Post
    I'm referring to the part in the Constitution that authorizes Congress to tax for that purpose.

    We don't need taxes to implement defense.
    I'm prolly going to regret asking this but...how the hell do you expect the government to implement a defense without taxes?
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  4. #44
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    Re: Leave one Space Shuttle Operational?

    Shutting it down is a bad idea, we should have at least one or two operational. That being said, letting the private sector take over is a damn good idea, but our government should have a small if not lean program in the background.
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  5. #45
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    Re: Leave one Space Shuttle Operational?

    Quote Originally Posted by solletica View Post
    Most of the tax dollars in the US go to things the majority do no agree with.



    Individuals can voluntarily contribute money to private investment pools. SS is not needed.



    It's wrong to steal--doesn't matter if the theft is in the form of taxation.

    Plus, you're making the erroneous assumption that the government is some entity separate from the private sector that aims to serve the public interest.
    These are strawmen arguments. You said that NASA needs to be de-funded and that if I wanted it funded I can spend my own money. This is not a counter argument. If you don't like that NASA will continue to be funded and that people like me will vote for individual who will increase that funding is how this government works. it isn't stealing; it enfranchisement.

  6. #46
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    Re: Leave one Space Shuttle Operational?

    Quote Originally Posted by solletica View Post
    No it doesn't--there are several ways to resolve those paradoxes. One solution is that what has happen until now is what is supposed to have happened within the timeline, so any attempt to alter it by going back in time is impossible. The other resolution is to just allow the alternate timeline to occur in a parallel universe. The 3rd solution is to just have the entire timeline be altered to reflect the change that occurred due to intervention in the past.
    There are actually reasons why none of those will work. I'll divide them up into 1-3 to address them:
    1. This is contradicted by chaos theory, i.e. a small change in a chaotic system will result in a vastly different outcome. It also has problems with thermodynamics, since someone in a closed time loop would have to be immune to entropy. It also would mean that free will doesn't exist.
    2. Possible, but extremely unlikely. If it's true, then where are the time travelers? The probability that we're living in the original universe without any time travelers is vanishingly small.
    3. Impossible, because it leads to the Grandfather paradox and all that fun stuff.

    Quote Originally Posted by solletica View Post
    The turbine would slow down the flow of the water, meaning that the velocity at which the water fell into the sucking wormhole would slow down, which in turn would slow down the velocity at which the water came out of the supply wormhole. Over time, the supply wormhole would cease to put out any water.
    No it wouldn't, because gravity continuously pulls down. By teleporting something to a higher potential energy, you're violating thermodynamics.

    Quote Originally Posted by solletica View Post
    First, the only aliens that need FTL travel are corporeal lifeforms like us or those that experience time in a linear fashion and/or have a finite lifespan, grow old over time and die. Any non-corporeal lifeform and/or species that can naturally move through time as easy as space doesn't need FTL travel, much less a spaceship of any kind.

    Second, those linear-time aliens may be forbidden from making first contact w/us by the intervention of other alien species (a la 2010 Space Odyssey).

    In short, my attitude is to just work out the equations for FTL travel and assume God designed the universe in such a way as to mop up any paradoxes that would occur as a result of it.
    Well, that doesn't offer much to those of us who don't believe in God. There's a whole lot of unproven assumptions there for FTL to work.
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  7. #47
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    Re: Leave one Space Shuttle Operational?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    I'm prolly going to regret asking this but...how the hell do you expect the government to implement a defense without taxes?
    First, it's worth noting that the current federally government is completely inept at implementing defense even with all its taxes.

    But you got the idea Under my system, the federal government does not implement defense. Instead, every year, each individual will have the opportunity to decide for each defense-related activity, who they want their monthly payments to go to, i. e. they will grant various defense firms a one year electronic funds transfer authorization from their Swiss bank accounts (or the equivalent).

    If none of the firms will get adequate funding based on the authorizations, so be it--they will have to market themselves to the public until a select few win enough support for regular funding.

    Of course, such a system will take time to set up, but at least it will be somewhat efficient (i. e. work), as opposed to the current $100 billion/year taxpayer/deficit-funded system where less than 1% of that money is actually spent on defense.

  8. #48
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    Re: Leave one Space Shuttle Operational?

    Quote Originally Posted by atrasicarius View Post
    There are actually reasons why none of those will work. I'll divide them up into 1-3 to address them:
    1. This is contradicted by chaos theory, i.e. a small change in a chaotic system will result in a vastly different outcome. It also has problems with thermodynamics, since someone in a closed time loop would have to be immune to entropy. It also would mean that free will doesn't exist.
    2. Possible, but extremely unlikely. If it's true, then where are the time travelers? The probability that we're living in the original universe without any time travelers is vanishingly small.
    3. Impossible, because it leads to the Grandfather paradox and all that fun stuff.



    No it wouldn't, because gravity continuously pulls down. By teleporting something to a higher potential energy, you're violating thermodynamics.



    Well, that doesn't offer much to those of us who don't believe in God. There's a whole lot of unproven assumptions there for FTL to work.
    You don't have to believe in God. You just have to have faith that the Universe was set up to allow for reverse time travel w/out violating any of its basic laws (some of which we may not be currently aware of).

    Also, you need to understand that the concept of time as being something purely sequential is merely a human bias stemming from our inability to typically perceive it in a non-sequential fashion. Time can be thought of as merely another dimension.

  9. #49
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    Re: Leave one Space Shuttle Operational?

    Quote Originally Posted by solletica View Post
    You don't have to believe in God. You just have to have faith that the Universe was set up to allow for reverse time travel w/out violating any of its basic laws (some of which we may not be currently aware of).

    Also, you need to understand that the concept of time as being something purely sequential is merely a human bias stemming from our inability to typically perceive it in a non-sequential fashion. Time can be thought of as merely another dimension.
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  10. #50
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    Re: Leave one Space Shuttle Operational?

    I think the feds should have kept every program in place until they got a replacement. It's long over due. They also need to look into sponsoring/partnering with Virgin who is developing a shuttle program that will make commercial flights into space. There is so much money that can be made with the commercial flights that could benefit NASA and the private sector.
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