View Poll Results: Should the US keep one shuttle operational till the next generation?

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  • Yes! Keep one operational

    21 60.00%
  • No! Get rid of all of them

    12 34.29%
  • Other / I dont know

    2 5.71%
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Thread: Leave one Space Shuttle Operational?

  1. #31
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    Re: Leave one Space Shuttle Operational?

    Quote Originally Posted by solletica View Post
    With NASA wasting taxpayer money just putting stuff into low Earth orbit, it'll never be possible. Many physicists would be glad to work on FTL research if they were paid handsomely for it, i. e. if the money used to launch shuttles into orbit instead went to their pockets.

    Sure, it'll take a long time. I'm estimating at least 220 years before the first teleportation or warp drive, and at least 60 years for the theoretical breakthrough to allow it (assuming the physicists are getting the funding they want).

    But that commitment must be made now, and preferably, via private donations (made possible by reduced taxes from de-funding NASA). I don't believe in stealing money from others to sponsor my own agenda.
    I'm gonna have to disagree with that one. FTL travel of any type violates causality, which means time travel, which means all sorts of fun, physically impossible paradoxes. It would also be possible to use it to violate thermodynamics in a few ways. For example, you could open a wormhole above a linked wormhole, put a turbine in the middle, and run water through it for infinite energy. Aside from that, if FTL travel is possible, then where are the aliens at?
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  2. #32
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    Re: Leave one Space Shuttle Operational?

    Quote Originally Posted by solletica View Post
    If you would like to double NASA's funding, you're welcome to write your own checks to that agency, or wire money from your account to NASA's account to fulfill that funding goal, and tell your friends to do the same.

    Just as long as it keeps its hands off my stash until I want to fund something it does.
    I am free to vote for individuals who look forward and understand that NASA is one of the most beneficial programs this country has ever had. The thing with taxes is that sometimes tax dollars go to something people may not agree with. Might I add that if people can move their tax dollars to things you want, how soon do you think Social Security and Medicare get de-funded? No, your ideas, though I respect you for having them and you are free to express them, are completely wrong. Wrong for the nation, wrong even for the globe.

  3. #33
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    Re: Leave one Space Shuttle Operational?

    Quote Originally Posted by atrasicarius View Post
    I'm gonna have to disagree with that one. FTL travel of any type violates causality, which means time travel, which means all sorts of fun, physically impossible paradoxes.
    No it doesn't--there are several ways to resolve those paradoxes. One solution is that what has happen until now is what is supposed to have happened within the timeline, so any attempt to alter it by going back in time is impossible. The other resolution is to just allow the alternate timeline to occur in a parallel universe. The 3rd solution is to just have the entire timeline be altered to reflect the change that occurred due to intervention in the past.

    Quote Originally Posted by atrasicarius View Post
    It would also be possible to use it to violate thermodynamics in a few ways. For example, you could open a wormhole above a linked wormhole, put a turbine in the middle, and run water through it for infinite energy.
    The turbine would slow down the flow of the water, meaning that the velocity at which the water fell into the sucking wormhole would slow down, which in turn would slow down the velocity at which the water came out of the supply wormhole. Over time, the supply wormhole would cease to put out any water.

    Quote Originally Posted by atrasicarius View Post
    Aside from that, if FTL travel is possible, then where are the aliens at?
    First, the only aliens that need FTL travel are corporeal lifeforms like us or those that experience time in a linear fashion and/or have a finite lifespan, grow old over time and die. Any non-corporeal lifeform and/or species that can naturally move through time as easy as space doesn't need FTL travel, much less a spaceship of any kind.

    Second, those linear-time aliens may be forbidden from making first contact w/us by the intervention of other alien species (a la 2010 Space Odyssey).

    In short, my attitude is to just work out the equations for FTL travel and assume God designed the universe in such a way as to mop up any paradoxes that would occur as a result of it.

  4. #34
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    Re: Leave one Space Shuttle Operational?

    Quote Originally Posted by hallam View Post
    I am free to vote for individuals who look forward and understand that NASA is one of the most beneficial programs this country has ever had. The thing with taxes is that sometimes tax dollars go to something people may not agree with.
    Most of the tax dollars in the US go to things the majority do no agree with.

    Quote Originally Posted by hallam View Post
    Might I add that if people can move their tax dollars to things you want, how soon do you think Social Security and Medicare get de-funded?
    Individuals can voluntarily contribute money to private investment pools. SS is not needed.

    Quote Originally Posted by hallam View Post
    No, your ideas, though I respect you for having them and you are free to express them, are completely wrong. Wrong for the nation, wrong even for the globe.
    It's wrong to steal--doesn't matter if the theft is in the form of taxation.

    Plus, you're making the erroneous assumption that the government is some entity separate from the private sector that aims to serve the public interest.

  5. #35
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    Re: Leave one Space Shuttle Operational?

    The shuttle program is outdated and the technology is old. Other countries can do it more cheaply and more efficiently than we can. The Russians will sustain the space program while we sort out our economy.

    I know a lot of people say that NASA is responsible for good invention. That's true, but we don't need NASA in order to invent. The whole reason why we engaged in the space race was to beat the Soviets and to establish orbital supremacy. We not only did that, but we transcended the conflict and started forming a working relationship in space.

    I would rather see our dollars spent on earthly matters at this point.

  6. #36
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    Re: Leave one Space Shuttle Operational?

    Quote Originally Posted by solletica View Post
    The US govt is doing a lousy job of providing security, as has become evident on 9/11 and w/the useless Transportation Groping Administration.

    And the reason is that the govt does not act in the interests of the people, but rather only in the interests of the private firms that lobby it. The so-called "defense" spending of the US is merely a taxpayer funded payoff for contractors who want to peddle their useless toys (the latest tanks and planes) that have proven to be useless against modern (guerilla-type) threats.

    IMHO, the Framers made a huge blunder when they wrote the "provide for the common defence" clause.



    GPS and cell phones can be made to work without satellites, using land-based towers and undersea fiber cabling, and all those already exist, and cost much less to build/maintain.



    In most cases, no. However, private institutions/individuals do occasionally fund the causes that interest them, including space exploration, i. e. SpaceShipOne funded by Burt Rutan and Paul Allen. And that's all we need. Furthermore, for space exploration to advance requires theoretical breakthroughs, and that requires great minds and a lot of pencil and paper.

    Instead of the govt taxing individuals to build and deploy more low Earth orbit junk, voluntary donations should be collected from individuals and institutions to fund physicists to work on those breakthroughs. Without warp drive/teleportation, space is pretty much off limits anyway, so theory advancement is where the money should be spent.
    Guess what, providing for the common defence was the primary reason for the Union. I would amaze the Framers had they known their primary reason for forming a union was a blunder.
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  7. #37
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    Re: Leave one Space Shuttle Operational?

    Quote Originally Posted by Temporal View Post
    The shuttle program is outdated and the technology is old. Other countries can do it more cheaply and more efficiently than we can. The Russians will sustain the space program while we sort out our economy.

    I know a lot of people say that NASA is responsible for good invention. That's true, but we don't need NASA in order to invent. The whole reason why we engaged in the space race was to beat the Soviets and to establish orbital supremacy. We not only did that, but we transcended the conflict and started forming a working relationship in space.

    I would rather see our dollars spent on earthly matters at this point.
    You talk about how the shuttle is out dated and then refer to the Russians as the prime example? Their space craft can't even land. It has very little cargo room. It is preshuttle technology.
    You, my brothers and sisters, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the flesh; rather, serve one another humbly in love.For the entire law is fulfilled in keeping this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.”

  8. #38
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    Re: Leave one Space Shuttle Operational?

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    Guess what, providing for the common defence was the primary reason for the Union. I would amaze the Framers had they known their primary reason for forming a union was a blunder.
    I'm referring to the part in the Constitution that authorizes Congress to tax for that purpose.

    We don't need taxes to implement defense.

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    Re: Leave one Space Shuttle Operational?

    Quote Originally Posted by ksu_aviator View Post
    You talk about how the shuttle is out dated and then refer to the Russians as the prime example? Their space craft can't even land. It has very little cargo room. It is preshuttle technology.
    No it's not, it's pre-Apollo technology.
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  10. #40
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    Re: Leave one Space Shuttle Operational?

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    No it's not, it's pre-Apollo technology.
    Ok, both statements are factual while yours may enhance a more accurate image.
    You, my brothers and sisters, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the flesh; rather, serve one another humbly in love.For the entire law is fulfilled in keeping this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.”

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