View Poll Results: Should the US keep one shuttle operational till the next generation?

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  • Yes! Keep one operational

    21 60.00%
  • No! Get rid of all of them

    12 34.29%
  • Other / I dont know

    2 5.71%
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Thread: Leave one Space Shuttle Operational?

  1. #11
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    Re: Leave one Space Shuttle Operational?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    Do you honestly believe that private companies are going to do what is good for this country? That private companies will be allowed by the government to put up satellites that are meant to be kept secret for national security reasons?
    Private companies already control the government via lobbying.

    The problem is that once lobbied, the US government taxes people and/or future generations to fund the projects favored by the lobbying. And that's not cool.

    I don't want to be forced to pay for someone else's agenda. Let each individual voluntarily contribute to various pots for space exploration, depending on their interest.

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    Re: Leave one Space Shuttle Operational?

    Quote Originally Posted by hallam View Post
    For seven years we didn't have Apollo and then the Shuttle came. That took nearly 4 years. The best plan is to just stop and force the next program instead of constantly looking in the past. The Shuttle was great but we need to move on.
    Move on is putting it mildly. There is no real space exploration until some sort of faster-than-light transport system (i. e. warp drive, teleportation) has been developed.

    IMHO, money and time would be better spent on physicists working on a theoretical breakthrough to allow that instead of just hauling more stuff into low earth orbit or into the solar system.

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    Re: Leave one Space Shuttle Operational?

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    I certainly have no inside info re the shuttle, but we typically didnt go from black to grey with aircraft until the aircraft was already obsolete and its replacement was already operational. I sure as hell hope thats the case with the space program, otherwise, the decommisioning of the entire shuttle fleet is just about the stupidest thing this president has done.
    It was a smart move, and should've been done years ago. The shuttle program is one more reason for the debt disaster we're in.

  4. #14
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    Re: Leave one Space Shuttle Operational?

    Quote Originally Posted by solletica View Post
    It's not supposed to be the role of the government to tax individuals and/or future generations of individuals (i. e. children) to spend money on space vessels.
    Actually it is. For the simple fact that it is the governments job to provide security for this nation. What security is there if every other nation has vehicles, satellites, and possible weapons in space and we don't?

    Quote Originally Posted by solletica View Post
    That being said, the shuttle program was a monumental waste of money. Russia knew that when they built their Buran shuttle, which was more advanced than any US shuttle, and later scrapped it.
    Is that why we are currently relying on the Russians to get our people into space and onto the ISS? (which also has russian cosmonauts on it) You also realize that it is due to the space shuttle program that we currently have many things that we didn't have before? Such as your GPS, cell phones...and the list goes on and on.

    Quote Originally Posted by solletica View Post
    The government should get out of space altogether. Let private individuals and organizations and/or Russia handle it. No more taxing people for space.
    So what about NEO's? Think a private company is going to spend money on something which has no profit value?
    Last edited by Kal'Stang; 07-21-11 at 04:37 PM.
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    Re: Leave one Space Shuttle Operational?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    Actually it is. For the simple fact that it is the governments job to provide security for this nation. What security is there if every other nation has vehicles, satellites, and possible weapons in space and we don't?
    The US govt is doing a lousy job of providing security, as has become evident on 9/11 and w/the useless Transportation Groping Administration.

    And the reason is that the govt does not act in the interests of the people, but rather only in the interests of the private firms that lobby it. The so-called "defense" spending of the US is merely a taxpayer funded payoff for contractors who want to peddle their useless toys (the latest tanks and planes) that have proven to be useless against modern (guerilla-type) threats.

    IMHO, the Framers made a huge blunder when they wrote the "provide for the common defence" clause.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    Is that why we are currently relying on the Russians to get our people into space and onto the ISS? (which also has russian cosmonauts on it) You also realize that it is due to the space shuttle program that we currently have many things that we didn't have before? Such as your GPS, cell phones...and the list goes on and on.
    GPS and cell phones can be made to work without satellites, using land-based towers and undersea fiber cabling, and all those already exist, and cost much less to build/maintain.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    So what about NEO's? Think a private company is going to spend money on something which has no profit value?
    In most cases, no. However, private institutions/individuals do occasionally fund the causes that interest them, including space exploration, i. e. SpaceShipOne funded by Burt Rutan and Paul Allen. And that's all we need. Furthermore, for space exploration to advance requires theoretical breakthroughs, and that requires great minds and a lot of pencil and paper.

    Instead of the govt taxing individuals to build and deploy more low Earth orbit junk, voluntary donations should be collected from individuals and institutions to fund physicists to work on those breakthroughs. Without warp drive/teleportation, space is pretty much off limits anyway, so theory advancement is where the money should be spent.

  6. #16
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    Re: Leave one Space Shuttle Operational?

    Quote Originally Posted by solletica View Post
    The US govt is doing a lousy job of providing security, as has become evident on 9/11 and w/the useless Transportation Groping Administration.
    They are? Tell me...when was the last time the US was invaded? I know of twice that we have been attacked but I can't think of any time that we have been invaded in the last 60 years. Not that it matters. Even the best defense has its flaws which others can take advantage of so saying the the US gov is doing a lousy job based upon a couple of instances is idiotic imo.

    Quote Originally Posted by solletica View Post
    And the reason is that the govt does not act in the interests of the people, but rather only in the interests of the private firms that lobby it. The so-called "defense" spending of the US is merely a taxpayer funded payoff for contractors who want to peddle their useless toys (the latest tanks and planes) that have proven to be useless against modern (guerilla-type) threats.
    Really? Then what happened during the civil wars days? Civil rights days? 9/11 reaction? I could name lots of other things but whats the use? I've got a feeling that it won't matter to you.

    Quote Originally Posted by solletica View Post
    IMHO, the Framers made a huge blunder when they wrote the "provide for the common defence" clause.
    LMAO really? Then who do you think should provide for the common defense of America? Private corporations? Yeah, I can really see that working out to everyones benefits.

    CEO of a corporation in Alaska: If you want us to protect you then you have to pay us $1000 dollars per month or we will ignore any pleas for help!"

    Its funny...you are the one hollering about corporations controlling the government through lobbying (something which you yourself can do also mind you) to the detriment of everyone else and yet you are calling for the government to get out of the space program and to let the corporations do it.

    Quote Originally Posted by solletica View Post
    GPS and cell phones can be made to work without satellites, using land-based towers and undersea fiber cabling, and all those already exist, and cost much less to build/maintain.
    So do you think that other countries will allow the US to put land lines and towers on thier soil?

    Also what good is an undersea cable or a tower going to be for a ship in the middle of the ocean? Towers only reach so far and cables that run a couple miles deep below the ocean are not accessible to ships.

    You are also forgetting that a satellite is a hell of a lot harder for terrorists to attack than a tower or land line.

    You also forget that those satellites also look for and detect any possible threat to the US...such as nuclear missiles heading in our direction.

    Quote Originally Posted by solletica View Post
    In most cases, no. However, private institutions/individuals do occasionally fund the causes that interest them, including space exploration, i. e. SpaceShipOne funded by Burt Rutan and Paul Allen. And that's all we need. Furthermore, for space exploration to advance requires theoretical breakthroughs, and that requires great minds and a lot of pencil and paper.

    Instead of the govt taxing individuals to build and deploy more low Earth orbit junk, voluntary donations should be collected from individuals and institutions to fund physicists to work on those breakthroughs. Without warp drive/teleportation, space is pretty much off limits anyway, so theory advancement is where the money should be spent.
    You obviously have no idea what NEO's are. NEO's are about more than just Earth orbit junk that we put up there, most of which is harmless. NEO's are also about astroids and comets that have the possibility of impacting Earth. Some of those NEO's are out as far as Pluto. What company or private individual is going to spend the money required to map all those astroids just to make sure that they are not a threat to this world? Much less figure out a viable way of getting rid of any that do threaten the world?
    Last edited by Kal'Stang; 07-21-11 at 05:40 PM.
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  7. #17
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    Re: Leave one Space Shuttle Operational?

    Quote Originally Posted by solletica View Post
    It was a smart move, and should've been done years ago. The shuttle program is one more reason for the debt disaster we're in.
    The shuttle programs have been beneficial to science. I have said before that NASA should have and be funded with specific mission goals. However it makes no sense to abandon the program outright and render the shuttles useless.

    As for the NASA contribution to the 14.5 trillion dollar debt and climbing...1-its a drop in the bucket and 2-its only a waste if it accomplished nothing. Few scientists would agree with your position on that.

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    Re: Leave one Space Shuttle Operational?

    Well I for one will miss the Space Shuttle Fleet. It was like the Johnny Carson of space flight.
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  9. #19
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    Re: Leave one Space Shuttle Operational?

    The space shuttle program was excellent for its time, but it's obsolete by a good three decades. The private sector can handle routine launches. NASA should be researching new types of transportation.
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    Re: Leave one Space Shuttle Operational?

    Quote Originally Posted by solletica View Post
    Move on is putting it mildly. There is no real space exploration until some sort of faster-than-light transport system (i. e. warp drive, teleportation) has been developed.

    IMHO, money and time would be better spent on physicists working on a theoretical breakthrough to allow that instead of just hauling more stuff into low earth orbit or into the solar system.
    You're gonna be waiting a long time then, since FTL travel is impossible outside of Star Trek.
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