View Poll Results: Does the average citizen harbor envy/jealousy, hatred for the extremely wealthy?

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Thread: Does the average citizen harbor envy/jealousy, hatred for the extremely wealthy?

  1. #61
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    Re: Does the average citizen harbor envy/jealousy, hatred for the extremely wealthy?

    Quote Originally Posted by WI Crippler View Post
    People need to let go of this idea that possessions and money make you happy, or somehow make society better if everybody has equal share of resources. So long as you have what you need to get by(food, clothing, shelter), your attitude is what makes your own happiness. I've spent the better portion of my life in the lower parts of the income brackets. What the rich have had access to all those years made no difference to me. Wealth should be measured in life's experiences, not how much money you or someone else has.

    I don't know that there is that much hatred for the rich, but there is envy because we have conditioned ourselves to believe that possession and access to any resource one wants is the measure of success. I disagree.


    QFT..... I could lose everything I have to day and be just as happy.
    Let evil swiftly befall those who have wrongly condemned us

  2. #62
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    Re: Does the average citizen harbor envy/jealousy, hatred for the extremely wealthy?

    Quote Originally Posted by FilmFestGuy View Post
    That would be fine and all - if it weren't for the fact that the rich own moat of the politicians and thanks to Citizens United, their influence will only grow larger.

    ****, let's just sell naming rights to the Capital Building. At least that would be honest.
    It's not like the politicians don't pander to the wealthy for donations or anything... right? The way you make it sound is as if the wealthy are breaking the law all the time. So who owns Obama? How about Joe Biden? Nancy Pelosi? Same people who own Boener? Is the illuminati involved?
    “I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on what’s being proposed here, he’d agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute.” - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


  3. #63
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    Re: Does the average citizen harbor envy/jealousy, hatred for the extremely wealthy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeezy View Post
    ....you do realize that the capital gains tax is an income tax, right? And that the term "income tax" does not mean "taxes on wage" right? And that estates and trusts are also subject to income taxes, right?
    No, that isn't true. You have an income tax rate based on your wages only. That goes up as high as 35% in the top bracket. Investment income is not taxed under those taxes. Then you have a capital gains tax. That only goes up to 15%. One could refer to the capital gains tax as a type of income tax, but that isn't how the federal government treats it. The federal government treats them as different taxes and the source of your graph is the CBO. But, if you have a source saying that in this case they did lump them together, by all means, let me know.

    Also, note that your chart only talks about federal taxes, not total taxes.

    But, probably most importantly, your chart isn't detailed enough to address what we're talking about. Many people in the top 20% do pay high taxes- that includes the upper middle class, who pay the highest taxes. It's really the top 1% that are enjoying all the tax breaks for the rich.
    Last edited by teamosil; 07-20-11 at 04:33 PM.

  4. #64
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    Re: Does the average citizen harbor envy/jealousy, hatred for the extremely wealthy?

    Quote Originally Posted by ReverendHellh0und View Post
    QFT..... I could lose everything I have to day and be just as happy.
    Same here, but that isn't the point. And people trying to make it the point are misdirecting.

    Oh, and I realized that the $87 million figure I was quoting was dated to 2005.

    According to the Forbes article, in five years, the average income for the Top 400 earners has gone from $87 million to $345 million. And that's after the Great Recession.

    What's happened in the meantime to the average working person between 2005 and 2010? Nothing. Either they've lost their job or their wages have remained stagnant. Meantime, the Top 400 are making three times what they made.

    Those poor, poor victims of a massive government. Will God not think of these 400 and save them from this evil nation?

    Why is there no sympathy for their plight? They are martyrs in the name of Capitalism and should be worshiped as such. Because a slight tax increase is tantamount to murder.

  5. #65
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    Re: Does the average citizen harbor envy/jealousy, hatred for the extremely wealthy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    It's not like the politicians don't pander to the wealthy for donations or anything... right? The way you make it sound is as if the wealthy are breaking the law all the time. So who owns Obama? How about Joe Biden? Nancy Pelosi? Same people who own Boener? Is the illuminati involved?
    I didn't specify a party.

  6. #66
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    Re: Does the average citizen harbor envy/jealousy, hatred for the extremely wealthy?

    Quote Originally Posted by FilmFestGuy View Post
    Same here, but that isn't the point. And people trying to make it the point are misdirecting.

    Oh, and I realized that the $87 million figure I was quoting was dated to 2005.

    According to the Forbes article, in five years, the average income for the Top 400 earners has gone from $87 million to $345 million. And that's after the Great Recession.

    What's happened in the meantime to the average working person between 2005 and 2010? Nothing. Either they've lost their job or their wages have remained stagnant. Meantime, the Top 400 are making three times what they made.

    Those poor, poor victims of a massive government. Will God not think of these 400 and save them from this evil nation?

    Why is there no sympathy for their plight? They are martyrs in the name of Capitalism and should be worshiped as such. Because a slight tax increase is tantamount to murder.


    The Good Reverend is not in the top 400...... I don't care what they make, I am doing fine... If you were talking only about the top 400, you would be more honest in your debate, fact is, when we talk of the "rich" we talk about those making over 150k according to left wing loon specifics... therefore, talking about "400" people is dishonest at best.
    Let evil swiftly befall those who have wrongly condemned us

  7. #67
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    Re: Does the average citizen harbor envy/jealousy, hatred for the extremely wealthy?

    Quote Originally Posted by WI Crippler View Post
    People need to let go of this idea that possessions and money make you happy, or somehow make society better if everybody has equal share of resources. So long as you have what you need to get by(food, clothing, shelter), your attitude is what makes your own happiness. I've spent the better portion of my life in the lower parts of the income brackets. What the rich have had access to all those years made no difference to me. Wealth should be measured in life's experiences, not how much money you or someone else has.

    I don't know that there is that much hatred for the rich, but there is envy because we have conditioned ourselves to believe that possession and access to any resource one wants is the measure of success. I disagree.
    Many people don't have what they need. That's sort of the point.
    “In politics, stupidity is not a handicap.” -Napoleon

  8. #68
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    Re: Does the average citizen harbor envy/jealousy, hatred for the extremely wealthy?

    Quote Originally Posted by FilmFestGuy View Post
    I didn't specify a party.
    And I pointed to both.
    “I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on what’s being proposed here, he’d agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute.” - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


  9. #69
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    Re: Does the average citizen harbor envy/jealousy, hatred for the extremely wealthy?

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    No, that isn't true. You have an income tax rate based on your wages only. That goes up as high as 35% in the top bracket. Investment income is not taxed under those taxes. Then you have a capital gains tax. That only goes up to 15%. One could refer to the capital gains tax as a type of income tax, but that isn't how the federal government treats it. The federal government treats them as different taxes and the source of your graph is the CBO. But, if you have a source saying that in this case they did lump them together, by all means, let me know.
    Go back and look at my graph. It says "income taxes" not "income tax on wages." Capital gains taxes are defined as an income taxes. Individuals and corporations pay income tax on the net total of all their capital gains...the same tax that was slashed via the Bush Tax Cuts. Yes, the rate is different on capital gains as opposed to wages.. But it's still classified as income tax by the government. So I'm still right.

    What you're thinking of is "ordinary income tax."

    Also, note that your chart only talks about federal taxes, not total taxes.
    Note that your argument makes no sense, seeing as how each state has a different tax structure and we'd have to differentiate between all 50. Property taxes vary insanely. Sales taxes on goods are often levied by more than one state. It would be downright stupid to calculate an average state tax burden.

    But, probably most importantly, your chart isn't detailed enough to address what we're talking about. Many people in the top 20% do pay high taxes- that includes the upper middle class, who pay the highest taxes. It's really the top 1% that are enjoying all the tax breaks for the rich.
    If you've been reading my posts for the past few pages, you'd know that it IS what I'm talking about. The top 1% in an economy of trillions, in a nation of hundreds of millions, is a ridiculous measure of what the middle class "should" have in relation. The sheer size and complexity of their wealth, along with their highly paid accountants, makes it easy to under-report and hide income. Besides, I never said that loopholes for the top 400 shouldn't be closed.

    So again, you're talking about nothing.
    Last edited by Jeezy; 07-20-11 at 05:32 PM.
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  10. #70
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    Re: Does the average citizen harbor envy/jealousy, hatred for the extremely wealthy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeezy View Post
    Go back and look at my graph. It says "income taxes" not "income tax on wages." Capital gains taxes are defined as an income taxes. Individuals and corporations pay income tax on the net total of all their capital gains...the same tax that was slashed via the Bush Tax Cuts.

    So I'm still right.
    I'm not sure what you're saying. Are you saying that when an individual sells stock that they have held, say for 2 years, they pay regular income taxes on the profits? Like, 30% or whatever? Because that is most definitely incorrect. They pay long term capital gains taxes only and those cap out at 15%.

    Or are you just saying that you would call the capital gains tax an "income tax", so you assume that it is included in the chart? If that's what you're saying, you could be right, but I doubt it. Usually the government breaks down capital gains, corporate income taxes, estate taxes and income taxes as four separate categories of taxes. That's why, for example, when politicians talk about raising or cutting "income taxes" that has no effect on capital gains taxes.

    But, who knows, maybe for the purposes of that chart they lumped some of that stuff together to make it more readable or something. If you think that is the case, by all means, lets see a source confirming that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeezy View Post
    If you've been reading my posts for the past few pages, you'd know that it IS what I'm talking about. The top 1% in an economy of trillions, in a nation of hundreds of millions, is a ridiculous measure of what the middle class "should" have in relation. The sheer size and complexity of their wealth, along with their highly paid accountants, makes it easy to under-report and hide income. Besides, I never said that loopholes for the top 400 shouldn't be closed.

    So again, you're talking about nothing.
    That top 1% owns 43% of all the wealth in the country. To argue that we shouldn't even bother figuring out if they are paying a reasonable share of the taxes strikes me as totally absurd. That is perhaps the most important political issue out there right now- they aren't paying anywhere near their fair share. They're getting MASSIVE tax breaks and cheating on their taxes and exploiting loopholes and it is costing us hundreds of billions of dollars a year. We can't afford to keep floating them that extra cheese.

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