View Poll Results: Does the average citizen harbor envy/jealousy, hatred for the extremely wealthy?

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  • Yes

    52 67.53%
  • No

    25 32.47%
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Thread: Does the average citizen harbor envy/jealousy, hatred for the extremely wealthy?

  1. #51
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    Re: Does the average citizen harbor envy/jealousy, hatred for the extremely wealthy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    Don't get me wrong.
    A mildly progressive income tax isn't horrible but the problem lies in blame.

    The "rich" are easiest target, historically speaking.
    Politicians use them to their own end.

    I'd say this is the primary reason, I hate democracy.
    That would be fine and all - if it weren't for the fact that the rich own moat of the politicians and thanks to Citizens United, their influence will only grow larger.

    ****, let's just sell naming rights to the Capital Building. At least that would be honest.

  2. #52
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    Re: Does the average citizen harbor envy/jealousy, hatred for the extremely wealthy?

    Quote Originally Posted by FilmFestGuy View Post
    If you make $100,000 you pay approximately 6% of your income in FICA taxes.

    If you make $87 million (which is the average earnings of the Top 400), you pay approximately .000007% of your income in FICA taxes.

    See how 6% is significantly more than .000007%?

    See how that can throw things off a bit.

    Again: The Very Rich Are Different–They Pay A Lower Tax Rate - Janet Novack - Taxing Matters - Forbes
    Does the person with $87 million need to pay a tax for something that they will never need?
    Like SS, SSD?
    Last edited by Harry Guerrilla; 07-20-11 at 04:17 PM.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
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  3. #53
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    Re: Does the average citizen harbor envy/jealousy, hatred for the extremely wealthy?

    Quote Originally Posted by tessaesque View Post
    So the wealthy don't pay FICA, own property, own vehicles, or buy anything???
    No, they definitely do, but they pay those things on a much smaller portion of their income. That's why they're regressive. For example, FICA only applies to the first $100k worth of wages you earn in a year. So, a person who makes all their money investing wouldn't pay it at all, and a person who made $10M in wages would only pay FICA on 1% of their income. Likewise, sales taxes are regressive because the more money somebody has, the lower the percentage of their income they spend on taxable goods. For example, a person making $30k/year might need to spend almost all of it on food, clothes, transportation, etc, so they are paying sales tax on a large portion of their income. A person that makes $10m/year might only spend 10% of their income on taxable goods, so they would only be paying sales tax on a small portion of their income. That's what "regressive" means- that it takes a lower percentage of rich people's income than of regular people's income.

  4. #54
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    Re: Does the average citizen harbor envy/jealousy, hatred for the extremely wealthy?

    Quote Originally Posted by FilmFestGuy View Post
    See, here is where you are wrong and I think a LOT of Americans believe this.

    If you make more than $373,651, your top tax rate is 35%.

    Someone making $1 million doesn't pay $350,000 in taxes. They pay 10% on the first $8,000; 15% on their income up to $34,000; and so on.

    Only the money over $373,651 is taxed at 35%.

    Also, they stop paying payroll taxes on income above $106,800.

    The top 400 families pay an effective tax rate of 16.6% - nearly the same as someone making $30,000. And they make, on average, $87 million a year.

    Tax Rate for Richest 400 Taxpayers Plummeted in Recent Decades, Even as Their Pre-Tax Incomes Skyrocketed — Center on Budget and Policy Priorities

    It's not envy. It's about fairness. If we have a progressive tax system (and was ALWAYS have), then it should be progressive. Payroll taxes and loopholes result in the richest Americans paying a rate much lower than the middle class.

    The people who pay the highest tax rates are those making around $100,000, an amount I firmly consider to be upper-middle class. From about $350,000 on, the effective tax rate declines and declines and declines.
    Quoted for truth.
    “In politics, stupidity is not a handicap.” -Napoleon

  5. #55
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    Re: Does the average citizen harbor envy/jealousy, hatred for the extremely wealthy?

    Quote Originally Posted by FilmFestGuy View Post
    That would be fine and all - if it weren't for the fact that the rich own moat of the politicians and thanks to Citizens United, their influence will only grow larger.

    ****, let's just sell naming rights to the Capital Building. At least that would be honest.
    Yea yea, why do other lobby groups get left out of this, when their ends are just as bad, selfish, etc as these "rich" people?
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

  6. #56
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    Re: Does the average citizen harbor envy/jealousy, hatred for the extremely wealthy?

    People need to let go of this idea that possessions and money make you happy, or somehow make society better if everybody has equal share of resources. So long as you have what you need to get by(food, clothing, shelter), your attitude is what makes your own happiness. I've spent the better portion of my life in the lower parts of the income brackets. What the rich have had access to all those years made no difference to me. Wealth should be measured in life's experiences, not how much money you or someone else has.

    I don't know that there is that much hatred for the rich, but there is envy because we have conditioned ourselves to believe that possession and access to any resource one wants is the measure of success. I disagree.
    "Loyalty only matters when there's a hundred reasons not to be-" Gen. Mattis

  7. #57
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    Re: Does the average citizen harbor envy/jealousy, hatred for the extremely wealthy?

    Quote Originally Posted by tessaesque View Post
    So what you're saying is...any time something the rich have no control over happens, we need to hike up their financial obligation to take care of it. And that's "fair" because....?
    I mean, life isn't magic. Sometimes times are better than others. When times are tougher, we all have to pitch in more and help out... That's just how the world works. If you're living on a farm with two other people you wouldn't demand that they specify exactly how many hours you are going to be expected to work each day and then get mad if they ask you to work more, right? If there is a flood, you work more. If the cows get loose, you work until you get them back. If there isn't much that needs doing, you work less. There isn't anything I can do to change that fundamental reality.

  8. #58
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    Re: Does the average citizen harbor envy/jealousy, hatred for the extremely wealthy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    Yea yea, why do other lobby groups get left out of this, when their ends are just as bad, selfish, etc as these "rich" people?
    It's foolish to get worked up about Citizens United, it just demonstrates an ignorance of law when somebody claims Citizens United is going to lead to some sort of dystopic corporatocracy. It merely extends the right to free speech to groups of people.

    The problem with corporations having excessive influence, and an unfair distorting effect on the free market, is directly traceable to the coercive protection agreements that corporations have with government, in the form of corporate tort-liability shields. Absent this coercive protection arrangement, corporations would have no extraordinary influence whatsoever, and would be like any other honest business. As it stands, from a libertarian perspective, corporations are no better than any other protection racket.

  9. #59
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    Re: Does the average citizen harbor envy/jealousy, hatred for the extremely wealthy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Incognito View Post
    It's foolish to get worked up about Citizens United, it just demonstrates an ignorance of law when somebody claims Citizens United is going to lead to some sort of dystopic corporatocracy. It merely extends the right to free speech to groups of people.

    The problem with corporations having excessive influence, and an unfair distorting effect on the free market, is directly traceable to the coercive protection agreements that corporations have with government, in the form of corporate tort-liability shields. Absent this coercive protection arrangement, corporations would have no extraordinary influence whatsoever, and would be like any other honest business. As it stands, from a libertarian perspective, corporations are no better than any other protection racket.
    Completely agree.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

  10. #60
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    Re: Does the average citizen harbor envy/jealousy, hatred for the extremely wealthy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    I was just accused of this very thing by a far-right poster because of my position regarding the growing wealth disparity in the US.
    Well that could have been anybody.

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    The thing is I do not hate, or envy, the wealthy. I am very happy with my standard of living. Great wealth is not necessary to have a happy and comfortable life. But I see too many who are not so fortunate. As has been pointed out, this is the greatest disparity in wealth between the upper and lower classes since 1920 and before that in the 1880's in the days of the robber barons. In 2009, one in seven Americans lived in poverty. Unless we desire to become a third world nation, we need to rethink our regressive changes that have been made to our progressive tax system that have transferred too much much wealth to the top without job production.
    I see it differently. I see it with you as envy, not for yourself, but in some social justice type of way built upon your ideology. I know you truly believe that the wealthy should be forced to provide for those who have less than them in some sort of global fairness that supposed to cosmically occur. Life just isn't fair.
    “I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on what’s being proposed here, he’d agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute.” - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


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