View Poll Results: Does the average citizen harbor envy/jealousy, hatred for the extremely wealthy?

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    52 67.53%
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    25 32.47%
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Thread: Does the average citizen harbor envy/jealousy, hatred for the extremely wealthy?

  1. #271
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    Re: Does the average citizen harbor envy/jealousy, hatred for the extremely wealthy?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    if people have no talent that is unfortunate but why does that require someone else to take care of them
    But we still need something for them to do. I have heard argument after argument that we need to get away from labor/manufacturing, but not everyone is an Einstein, does have talent, or has the good fortune to put a talent to use, not everyone wants a career. Some people just want to work.
    What will soon be left to do for those who aren't academics? Shall we send them to the desert without water?
    We have to keep enough jobs here for everyone, otherwise soon no one will have a penny left for anything or anyone's goods or products, not even the cheap slave labor ( or non union) imports.
    We can talk until we are blue in the face that people should take care of themselves, but without jobs for the gifted to the most dense, there aren't too many ways to do so.
    We can only get people off Gov dole if we have something for them to get to.

  2. #272
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    Re: Does the average citizen harbor envy/jealousy, hatred for the extremely wealthy?

    1% hold 48% of the wealth in the US. I don't see any of it trickling down.

    You don't become super duper wealthy by sharing and caring. You become super duper wealthy by marketing a product (potentially lying), paying your workers as low a salary as is possible (possibly using cheap, slave-like Chinese labor), and taking the biggest cut for yourself. You can then hire smart attorneys so that you can pay little to nothing in taxes to the country that made your getting wealthy possible.

    Wealth is just holding a lot of shiny paper or pieces of paper saying you own this. These pieces of paper can then be used to barter for other men. When you have enough shiny pieces of paper you can trade a few thousand pieces of shiny paper for a man's integrity, which will allow you to acquire even more shiny pieces of paper. As you continue to buy more men, you and those like you will find themselves with most of the shiny paper in the country. You will then likely band together, allowing you to not only buy more expensive men but to also control unwilling men indirectly, by buying things such as the media corporations. Eventually you and people like you will hold nearly all the shiny pieces of paper in the country, but you still hunger for more shiny paper. You fight secret wars with the 'leaders' of the country you corrupted, fighting each other to take each-others wealth. You must keep the plebeians from taking your wealth from you, as the majority of men can easily take from the minority of men, so you convince them they too have the chance to be like you. This is the modern day.

    Wealth corrupts. The wealthy are corrupted. Purify them with fire.

  3. #273
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    Re: Does the average citizen harbor envy/jealousy, hatred for the extremely wealthy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lovebug View Post
    But we still need something for them to do. I have heard argument after argument that we need to get away from labor/manufacturing, but not everyone is an Einstein, does have talent, or has the good fortune to put a talent to use, not everyone wants a career. Some people just want to work.
    What will soon be left to do for those who aren't academics? Shall we send them to the desert without water?
    We have to keep enough jobs here for everyone, otherwise soon no one will have a penny left for anything or anyone's goods or products, not even the cheap slave labor ( or non union) imports.
    We can talk until we are blue in the face that people should take care of themselves, but without jobs for the gifted to the most dense, there aren't too many ways to do so.
    We can only get people off Gov dole if we have something for them to get to.
    of course not-there will always be manual jobs plus the infantry. some top soldiers did not/do not have great levels of schooling.

    right now one of the biggest problems is that the least able tend to have much higher birthrates than the truly gifted who tend to delay children into their late 20's early thirties. My 30th reunion in college saw dozens of classmates who had kids in the early teen age years, my ex girlfriend and her husband (who was one of my grooms in my wedding) have a son who is 8. (yeah he was adopted). but many of my classmates didn't start having children until after they had completed their residencies or made partner in their wall street law offices or investment houses etc or received tenure at the university.



  4. #274
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    Re: Does the average citizen harbor envy/jealousy, hatred for the extremely wealthy?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    so what is your solution with dealing with a few hundred of the uber wealthy. and why do these rants against the super rich whose wealth comes from OPM always end up carpetbombing everyone else who is wealthy?

    and I agree with you HF managers should pay earned income on their fees. that is idiotic they do not
    The thread topic is about anger/envy of the rich. My point is that a rational analysis of the current fiscal mess should lead to anger at the wealthy perpetrators of the current fiscal mess. Not sure what you mean about "carpet bagging" but closing loopholes and right-offs and raising taxes slightly on those who can easily afford it, is a practical matter. Small businesses need greater demand for goods far more than they need lower taxes. Wacking the incomes of lower income earners as Repubs and some Dems appear bent on doing through cuts in social spending, will reduce demand and prolong the recession. And I am still unenlightened as to what is the logic of tea party people who seem resistant even to end tax right-offs for the wealthy. What American voted for Grover Norquist for President!!? ?

  5. #275
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    Re: Does the average citizen harbor envy/jealousy, hatred for the extremely wealthy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cassandra View Post
    The thread topic is about anger/envy of the rich. My point is that a rational analysis of the current fiscal mess should lead to anger at the wealthy perpetrators of the current fiscal mess. Not sure what you mean about "carpet bagging" but closing loopholes and right-offs and raising taxes slightly on those who can easily afford it, is a practical matter. Small businesses need greater demand for goods far more than they need lower taxes. Wacking the incomes of lower income earners as Repubs and some Dems appear bent on doing through cuts in social spending, will reduce demand and prolong the recession. And I am still unenlightened as to what is the logic of tea party people who seem resistant even to end tax right-offs for the wealthy. What American voted for Grover Norquist for President!!? ?

    why not be angry at those who created the mess rather than worry whether they are rich or not. "right offs" LOL. those who "can afford" more taxes already pay too much. should I pay more for a car than you do because chances are I can afford more? NO because we each are getting the same value. I don't get extra value from the government paying 300K or more in FIT than you do even if you are one of those 47% who pay nothing in FIT.

    what "right offs" [sic] do the rich get? even with those "right offs" [sic] they still pay almost 40% of the income tax and all the death tax and they only make 22% of the income and certainly don't have all the wealth at death



  6. #276
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    Re: Does the average citizen harbor envy/jealousy, hatred for the extremely wealthy?

    carpet bombing-means to saturate bomb an area to destroy an intended target knowing that your actions will cause massive collateral damage. very different from "carpet begging" (no clue what that means) or perhaps "carpet bagging" (a term from the post war south involving northern opportunists who moved there-in reference to the luggage they carried-carpet bags



  7. #277
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    Re: Does the average citizen harbor envy/jealousy, hatred for the extremely wealthy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cassandra View Post
    Small businesses need greater demand for goods far more than they need lower taxes.
    It all starts and ends with jobs. Greater demands for goods create more jobs, jobs create greater demands for goods. When people have jobs, they are happy, less envious, more willing to lend a helping hand to those who can't fend for themselves.
    JOBS.

  8. #278
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    Re: Does the average citizen harbor envy/jealousy, hatred for the extremely wealthy?

    I have no clue if most are jealous ... and you might define extreme wealth.

    My definition of extreme wealth would be a person far about a seven figure annual income and over 10 million in assets ... as the lowest rung of wealthy. Generally I consider extremely wealth as those with hundreds of millions of dollars.

    I am not jealous ... yet I am sometimes skeptical often of how wealth is accumulated to that degree. If someone accumulates wealth by manipulating markets, putting working people out of jobs, destroying investments of middle class Americans then I feel it is wrong. Especially considering today's tax rates on wealthy Americans are LOWER than they've been in almost 80 years.

    Fact ... despite all the posturing by Republicans ... even with chopping the budget to no social entitlements and cutting military spending we cannot balance unless we increase tax revenues. Bush went on spending spree as he cut taxes ... spiraling into a possible depression the stimulus added ...albeit at least it was to invest in our own countries infrastructure and attempt to save the economy.

    My disagreement with the Dems ... they define wealth as income above 200k and therefore that bracket is included t in their the tax increase propostion. Sorry the schmucks in that income bracket are usually working 50+ hours a week ... when all is considered with property/state/federal taxes they end up paying > 50% tax bracket. That income ... the kids never qualify for Pell grants or FAFSA. We actually buy our health insurance at a cost of about 15,000/year ... so taxes should be lowered on anyone in the 400k or below.

    The extremely wealthy (per my definition) ... hell yes raise their taxes!

    Now before you push me into a left leaning ... detest the wealthy parrot .... think again.

    Personally ... except for medicare and social security ... all social entitlements should be cut. Those in need should have to compete at eye level for social welfare and pass tests demonstrating they are drug free.

    It almost seems those abusing social entitlements/ Pell grants and disability are in the same bankrupt character as those who manipulate financial systems that are destroying the American economy.


    Another point ... evidence repeatedly points to middle income Americans best adjusted and happy. Sadly, we have a shrinking economical middle class.
    Last edited by Turin; 07-23-11 at 08:53 PM.

  9. #279
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    Re: Does the average citizen harbor envy/jealousy, hatred for the extremely wealthy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeezy View Post
    ...but my definition does place more "weight." The rich are paying a higher rate because they have more of the taxable asset. That you want rich people to pay a higher PORTION of their total income follows from...nothing, besides you wanting the rich to pay more.

    If they're already paying more cents per dollar than a poorer person on a certain tax, then why isn't that tax progressive enough for you? Why do they have to actually dedicate a higher portion of their TOTAL income to that tax?
    There are lots of reasons that taxes should increase as the person makes more money. One particularly strong reason is that it just makes sense that the more benefit somebody gets from something the more they should pay to maintain it. If we order a pizza and you eat 7 slices, but I only eat 1, it would certainly be reasonable to expect you to pay more for it. The more income somebody makes the more benefit they're getting out of society, so they have to chip in more to keep that society strong.

    Another reason is the diminishing marginal utility of wealth. Money has less value per dollar the more of it you have, so drawing taxes from people that have a lot of income had less negative impact on things. Put more simply, a tax of $5k is going to hurt a person that makes $10k/year a whole lot more than it will hurt somebody who makes $300k/year.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeezy View Post
    So even the top 1% isn't rich?
    It's just a word. How we define it is arbitrary. Personally I can see somebody considering the entire top 1% to be "rich", but I'd draw the line more at like the $1m/year line or something.

  10. #280
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    Re: Does the average citizen harbor envy/jealousy, hatred for the extremely wealthy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cassandra View Post
    The thread topic is about anger/envy of the rich. My point is that a rational analysis of the current fiscal mess should lead to anger at the wealthy perpetrators of the current fiscal mess. Not sure what you mean about "carpet bagging" but closing loopholes and right-offs and raising taxes slightly on those who can easily afford it, is a practical matter. Small businesses need greater demand for goods far more than they need lower taxes. Wacking the incomes of lower income earners as Repubs and some Dems appear bent on doing through cuts in social spending, will reduce demand and prolong the recession. And I am still unenlightened as to what is the logic of tea party people who seem resistant even to end tax right-offs for the wealthy. What American voted for Grover Norquist for President!!? ?

    Even Grover Norquist said the GOP would not be breaking their pledge by eliminating the temporary tax breaks because that would not technically be an increase.

    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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