View Poll Results: Does the average citizen harbor envy/jealousy, hatred for the extremely wealthy?

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  • Yes

    52 67.53%
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    25 32.47%
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Thread: Does the average citizen harbor envy/jealousy, hatred for the extremely wealthy?

  1. #121
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    Re: Does the average citizen harbor envy/jealousy, hatred for the extremely wealthy?

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    To be fair, you'd probably see those lines intersect at some point if the data had been up-to-date. But I agree that you can only conclude so much from the "top 400 families."
    is there any use talking about the top 400 unless there is a major effort to subject them to a different tax than everyone making more than a couple hundred K?

    each of those families still pay more income taxes than 70 million plus americans

    seems to me they are doing their part while 70 million americans are not



  2. #122
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    Re: Does the average citizen harbor envy/jealousy, hatred for the extremely wealthy?

    Quote Originally Posted by WI Crippler View Post
    Is that how you envision the "poor repressed middle class" as living? Even a majority of people living in poverty don't live like this.
    "In response to recently released Census Bureau poverty figures, the American Friends Service Committee (AFSC) called on Congress to adopt a moral budget that helps people meet their basic needs. Eliminating safety-net programs for the poor in favor of tax cuts for the rich — while 37 million live in poverty — is immoral, declared the AFSC, an international social justice organization."

    "Nationwide, 37 million people, including 13 million children, live below the official poverty line of $9,643 for one person and $19,311 for a family of four. Nearly one in five U.S. children is poor."


    37 Million People in Poverty in the U.S. - AMERICAN FRIENDS SERVICE COMMITTEE (AFSC) / Street Spirit v.11, n.10, 1oct2005


    What's really going on with the economy? - unequal distribution of wealth and income

    "A few years ago, Michael Eisner, president of Walt Disney Corp., earned $200,000,000. Bill Gates, the major stockholder of the software company Microsoft, is worth more than $9,000,000,000. The average salary for the chief executive officers of major American corporations is over $3,000,000 a year, not including stock options and special benefits.

    Life for the rich never has been better. In the last 20 years, the wealthiest one percent of American families saw their after-tax incomes more than double. The very rich now own a greater percentage of the nation's wealth than at any time since the 1920s.

    While the wealthy are becoming richer and the number of millionaires and billionaires is skyrocketing, there is another reality. Since 1973, 80% of all families have seen their incomes decline or remain stagnant. The average American today is working longer hours for less income--and has every reason to worry that the future will be even worse for his or her children.

    Television news shows may not feature it, Reader's Digest may not discuss it, and the leaders of the Democratic and Republican parties may not make it a priority, but the decline in the standard of living of the average worker is, far and away, the most important and central issue facing this country.

    The rich are getting richer; the poor are getting poorer; and the middle class is shrinking. This is the great truth of contemporary U.S. society. The future of the nation depends upon reversing this destructive process. If this is not accomplished, there is a great likelihood that the days of American democracy are numbered.

    Just how bad is the situation of America's working men and women? Twenty years ago, U.S. workers were the best compensated in the world. Today, they rank 13th among industrialized nations in terms of wages and benefits. Foreign companies are investing in the U.S. for its comparatively cheap labor."



    Last edited by Catawba; 07-20-11 at 10:52 PM.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  3. #123
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    Re: Does the average citizen harbor envy/jealousy, hatred for the extremely wealthy?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    a citizen buys 1000 dollars worth of acme inc's stock

    someone driving a truck for acme inc swerves to miss a thrown tire or a dodging deer and kills a person in an oncoming car. the estate sues acme inc and say the verdict is a million dollar above acme's insurance

    under current laws, the judgment has to be satisfied only with the assets of acme and that means the stockholder's investments could be toast.

    guy thinks that the estate should be able to sue the citizen personally and collect against his property in addition to the limit of his investments. that is idiotic in my opinion since there is no negligence or blame or intent on the part of the stockholder
    You have presented an incomplete picture. There is normally joint and several liability in business associations. Say that the same guy who bought 1000 dollars worth of acme, but acme wasn't incorporated, it was a no-frills partnership. Same facts.

    Our poor shareholder is now on the hook. As an investor in the business, this is how it should be. Or maybe it shouldn't be, but it is the case under our legal system. The only difference in the little "inc" after acme's name, which represents the coercive protection agreement with government.

    If you wanted to change the laws so that all business organizations, including the sole proprietorship and no-frills partnership, got limited liability, that would be fine, I would agree with you. But we are not talking about tort reform. The common law is what it is, and joint and several liability of business associations is what it is.

    We are talking here about special perks granted by the government to certain types of businesses who have paid to see the government squelch the obligations they would have otherwise incurred at common law.

    So, you, TD, are advocating for a nanny-state to take protect businesspeople who are too lazy and risk-averse to do their due diligence before they invest in a company and acquire liability. You want a free handout from the government just like every other parasite.

  4. #124
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    Re: Does the average citizen harbor envy/jealousy, hatred for the extremely wealthy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Incognito View Post
    You have presented an incomplete picture. There is normally joint and several liability in business associations. Say that the same guy who bought 1000 dollars worth of acme, but acme wasn't incorporated, it was a no-frills partnership. Same facts.

    Our poor shareholder is now on the hook. As an investor in the business, this is how it should be. Or maybe it shouldn't be, but it is the case under our legal system. The only difference in the little "inc" after acme's name, which represents the coercive protection agreement with government.

    If you wanted to change the laws so that all business organizations, including the sole proprietorship and no-frills partnership, got limited liability, that would be fine, I would agree with you. But we are not talking about tort reform. The common law is what it is, and joint and several liability of business associations is what it is.

    We are talking here about special perks granted by the government to certain types of businesses who have paid to see the government squelch the obligations they would have otherwise incurred at common law.

    So, you, TD, are advocating for a nanny-state to take protect businesspeople who are too lazy and risk-averse to do their due diligence before they invest in a company and acquire liability. You want a free handout from the government just like every other parasite.
    that has to be about as dishonest an interpretation of what reality is I have seen on this board

    we will put you down as wanting to punish every shareholder even if they invest a few bucks-they should be liable for millions

    luckily for the sane this sort of madness won't happen



  5. #125
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    Re: Does the average citizen harbor envy/jealousy, hatred for the extremely wealthy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    "In response to recently released Census Bureau poverty figures, the American Friends Service Committee (AFSC) called on Congress to adopt a moral budget that helps people meet their basic needs. Eliminating safety-net programs for the poor in favor of tax cuts for the rich while 37 million live in poverty is immoral, declared the AFSC, an international social justice organization."

    "Nationwide, 37 million people, including 13 million children, live below the official poverty line of $9,643 for one person and $19,311 for a family of four. Nearly one in five U.S. children is poor."

    37 Million People in Poverty in the U.S. - AMERICAN FRIENDS SERVICE COMMITTEE (AFSC) / Street Spirit v.11, n.10, 1oct2005

    What's really going on with the economy? - unequal distribution of wealth and income

    "A few years ago, Michael Eisner, president of Walt Disney Corp., earned $200,000,000. Bill Gates, the major stockholder of the software company Microsoft, is worth more than $9,000,000,000. The average salary for the chief executive officers of major American corporations is over $3,000,000 a year, not including stock options and special benefits.

    Life for the rich never has been better. In the last 20 years, the wealthiest one percent of American families saw their after-tax incomes more than double. The very rich now own a greater percentage of the nation's wealth than at any time since the 1920s.

    While the wealthy are becoming richer and the number of millionaires and billionaires is skyrocketing, there is another reality. Since 1973, 80% of all families have seen their incomes decline or remain stagnant. The average American today is working longer hours for less income--and has every reason to worry that the future will be even worse for his or her children.

    Television news shows may not feature it, Reader's Digest may not discuss it, and the leaders of the Democratic and Republican parties may not make it a priority, but the decline in the standard of living of the average worker is, far and away, the most important and central issue facing this country.

    The rich are getting richer; the poor are getting poorer; and the middle class is shrinking. This is the great truth of contemporary U.S. society. The future of the nation depends upon reversing this destructive process. If this is not accomplished, there is a great likelihood that the days of American democracy are numbered.

    Just how bad is the situation of America's working men and women? Twenty years ago, U.S. workers were the best compensated in the world. Today, they rank 13th among industrialized nations in terms of wages and benefits. Foreign companies are investing in the U.S. for its comparatively cheap labor."



    I gotta wonder what good does it do for one guy to have 9 billion dollars?

  6. #126
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    Re: Does the average citizen harbor envy/jealousy, hatred for the extremely wealthy?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    No it didn't

    sovereign immunity is a method by those who run a corporate entity and municipal and state governments are corporations. using your "logic" the mayor of LA should be personally liable for the cops beating up Rodney King
    This sentence is full of mistakes and misunderstandings of law.

    First, sovereign immunity is not the same as the corporate veil. Sovereign immunity is not the method by which a "corporate entity" escapes tort liability, it is the way the government escapes liability. As the case I provided earlier makes clear, sovereign immunity is derived from the principle that lawsuits are not the proper redress against government officials acting in their official capacity, that is for the ballot box. They are similar in effect but based on two different principles.

    As a lawyer, I am sure you understand all this, you are just feigning ignorance to drag out a red herring issue, because you argument on the main issue is so weak.

  7. #127
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    Re: Does the average citizen harbor envy/jealousy, hatred for the extremely wealthy?

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    No doubt you've taken one of these into your own home, right?

    As a matter of fact I did. How about you? Now, what does that have to do with our causing more of the middle class to fall under poverty, except trying to change the subject?
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  8. #128
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    Re: Does the average citizen harbor envy/jealousy, hatred for the extremely wealthy?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    that has to be about as dishonest an interpretation of what reality is I have seen on this board

    we will put you down as wanting to punish every shareholder even if they invest a few bucks-they should be liable for millions

    luckily for the sane this sort of madness won't happen
    Like I said earlier, your pinko nonsense gets no quarter with me. You might want the government to give handouts in the form of tort-liability protection for certain favored businesses, but I find this sort of parasitic behavior anathema to my libertarian values.

    I find personal responsibility to be the highest good, and things will always work out well if one accepts one's personal responsibility, pays one's debts, and compensates those which one has wrongfully injured. That is where I stand. And it is duly noted that you stand against personal responsibility.
    Last edited by Guy Incognito; 07-20-11 at 10:58 PM.

  9. #129
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    Re: Does the average citizen harbor envy/jealousy, hatred for the extremely wealthy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Incognito View Post
    This sentence is full of mistakes and misunderstandings of law.

    First, sovereign immunity is not the same as the corporate veil. Sovereign immunity is not the method by which a "corporate entity" escapes tort liability, it is the way the government escapes liability. As the case I provided earlier makes clear, sovereign immunity is derived from the principle that lawsuits are not the proper redress against government officials acting in their official capacity, that is for the ballot box. They are similar in effect but based on two different principles.

    As a lawyer, I am sure you understand all this, you are just feigning ignorance to drag out a red herring issue, because you argument on the main issue is so weak.

    both concepts shield offices of a corporate entity from being sued personally.

    You are again trying to engage in a contrarian argument and I won't play that game.

    And your argument is just that



  10. #130
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    Re: Does the average citizen harbor envy/jealousy, hatred for the extremely wealthy?

    Quote Originally Posted by winston53660 View Post
    I gotta wonder what good does it do for one guy to have 9 billion dollars?

    While nearly one in five US children live in poverty. Its disgraceful and immoral!
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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