View Poll Results: Does the average citizen harbor envy/jealousy, hatred for the extremely wealthy?

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  • Yes

    52 67.53%
  • No

    25 32.47%
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Thread: Does the average citizen harbor envy/jealousy, hatred for the extremely wealthy?

  1. #91
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    Re: Does the average citizen harbor envy/jealousy, hatred for the extremely wealthy?

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    Since I am WELL above average, I cannot participate in this poll. Sorry.
    But if I WERE average, I would answer no.
    Dear CC,
    I am suffering poll-taking remorse, after seeing you identify the trick of admitting being average, I now feel I have sold myself short.
    Is this permanent? Is there something I can take for this? Sincerely, below average.

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    Re: Does the average citizen harbor envy/jealousy, hatred for the extremely wealthy?

    Quote Originally Posted by MusicAdventurer View Post
    There seems to be an ongoing theme set by some that generally, those who care about the greater good of society and propose that a fair share of taxes be imposed on the extremely wealthy, are actually extremely envious/jealous and harbor hatred for the extremely wealthy. Supposedly, this is the reason these humanitarians propose a fair tax on the extremely wealthy. So letís see what everyone thinks.
    I personally dont give a flying **** how much money a person has. I care about what is in that persons heart and mind. I have family members that have many millions and to me they are some of the biggest losers I know because they have crap personalities.
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  3. #93
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    Re: Does the average citizen harbor envy/jealousy, hatred for the extremely wealthy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeezy View Post
    Closer, but still not there. Long term capital gains are not reported as "ordinary" income. Long term capital gains are taxed at a lower rate than short-term capital gains...but both of those fall under the broad umbrella of "Federal Income Tax". Just because it's under a different rate, doesn't mean it's not a federal income tax.
    Well, I'm still not buying that, but whatever.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeezy View Post
    To me, a "rich" person is not just 1%. That would be a very rich person. Being in the 99th percentile of wealth in the richest country in the world doesn't make you "rich." It makes you...well...a much stronger word for rich. I don't think 20th to 98th is a fair assessment of "middle class" at all.
    It doesn't really matter how we define the classes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeezy View Post
    Well, I mean, the share of total federal taxes paid for the top 1% has historically been on or around par with income received. Your objection is noted, but I seriously doubt the inclusion of state taxes significantly alters that percentage...especially since the wealthiest counties often have exorbitantly highly property taxes and such.

    Case in point: Westchester.
    It makes a massive difference. First off, state and local taxes are about 2/3 of total taxes. Local taxes are actually the biggest of the three. Secondly, local taxes especially tend to be regressive- sales tax and property taxes especially. State taxes tend to be either flat or very slightly progressive, although some states have more progressive schemes. Federal taxes are, by far, the most progressive. So, just looking at federal taxes is extremely misleading.

    For example, 47% of households pay no federal income taxes at all, but those same households absolutely pay sales and property taxes. On the other hand, somebody who makes $1 million per year may only spend 1% of their income on taxable goods or services, so they pay very nearly 0% on sales taxes.

  4. #94
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    Re: Does the average citizen harbor envy/jealousy, hatred for the extremely wealthy?

    Upper Class Tax Cuts Would Leave Middle Class Bleeding


    "Republican griping about income taxes seems odd, if only because today's top tax rate is close to an all-time low. In fact, since 1917, the highest bracket has only been lower two times: from 1925-1931, it hovered between 24% and 25%, and from 1988-1992 it fell to between 28% and 31%. But for the majority of the 20th century, the top rate was 50% or higher. In fact, during World War II, it hit a high of 94%.
    Capital Gains and Dividend Taxes

    In addition to a surprisingly low top tax rate, America's wealthiest citizens can take advantage of a variety of loopholes, deductions and incentives that further slash their payments into the public coffers. In fact, according to the IRS, the 400 richest people in America paid -- on average -- only 18.11% of their income in taxes in 2008. By comparison, people who make $34,500 pay a comparatively hefty 25% of their income in taxes before deductions.

    One way that the ultra-wealthy can cut their tax burden is by taking advantage of incredibly low capital gains and dividend taxes, which enable them to pay a mere 15% of their profits from stock holdings. A look at the finances of Ralph Lauren, CEO of Polo Ralph Lauren (RL), offer a good example of how this works: Listed as the sixth-highest paid CEO by Forbes, Lauren made $43 million in base pay in 2010. Before deductions, this would be taxed at 35%, the same rate paid by someone who brought home a comparatively paltry $374,000. In other words, Lauren probably paid the same tax rate as his dermatologist.

    But base pay is only a fraction of Lauren's income. He also owns about $3.42 billion worth of stock in his company. In 2003, President Bush lowered the top capital gains rate to 15%, meaning that, if Lauren were to sell shares that he had held for at least a year, he would pay taxes on his profits at the same rate as someone who makes $8,400 per year. In 2010, he did just that, selling $850 million in shares -- and paying just 15% on the proceeds.

    Lauren's company also pays dividends on its stock: In 2011, they are expected to reach 80Ę per share. For the famed designer's 25.9 million shares, this could come to as much as $20,720,000, which would also be taxed at 15%. The same, incidentally, goes for every other investor -- from Warren Buffett to Bill Gates -- who has held a share of stock for more than 60 days.

    The Rich Get Richer and the Middle Class ...

    The Bush-era tax cuts are now set to expire in 2013, but -- as the December 2010 budget battle showed -- they could be extended indefinitely. In the meantime, many of the country's richest citizens are paying a smaller tax rate than its poorest, and programs that are designed to keep the middle class from slipping into poverty are coming under withering attack from the right.

    With federal finances stretched to the breaking point, belt-tightening sounds like a great idea. The trouble is, Republican proposals basically demand that only the bottom 98.2% of Americans need to cinch their bellies, while letting the top 1.8% -- those who make more than $250,000 -- take a bigger bite from an ever-shrinking pie. Critics of capital gains and dividend taxes argue that these levies force the country's richest citizens to pay taxes twice on the same profits -- once when they earn the money that they invest, and once again when they sell their stock or receive dividends from it.

    Then again, with millions struggling to make ends meet, it's hard to find tears for America's wealthiest stockholders."



    Read more: Upper Class Tax Cuts Would Leave Middle Class Bleeding - FoxBusiness.com
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  5. #95
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    Re: Does the average citizen harbor envy/jealousy, hatred for the extremely wealthy?

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    $1 million per year may only spend 1% of their income on taxable goods or services, so they pay very nearly 0% on sales taxes.
    Be careful in such assumption. I encourage you to find and post data from CBO on this, before claiming it. I suspect you're off by a factor of 10.

  6. #96
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    Re: Does the average citizen harbor envy/jealousy, hatred for the extremely wealthy?

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    Well, I'm still not buying that, but whatever.
    It's written into the Federal Income Tax code. You don't have to buy it.

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    It doesn't really matter how we define the classes.
    ...which didn't stop you.

    It makes a massive difference. First off, state and local taxes are about 2/3 of total taxes. Local taxes are actually the biggest of the three. Secondly, local taxes especially tend to be regressive- sales tax and property taxes especially. State taxes tend to be either flat or very slightly progressive, although some states have more progressive schemes. Federal taxes are, by far, the most progressive. So, just looking at federal taxes is extremely misleading.

    For example, 47% of households pay no federal income taxes at all, but those same households absolutely pay sales and property taxes. On the other hand, somebody who makes $1 million per year may only spend 1% of their income on taxable goods or services, so they pay very nearly 0% on sales taxes.
    Okay, but sales and excise taxes tend to be naturally regressive because they exist in the form of general rates and that's it. I mean...that's just the nature.

    Besides, even though rich people's shopping habits tend to be a smaller percentage of income, their purchases are generally more exorbitant, so I can forgive that.

    Property taxes are progressive because the rate goes up in proportion to the assessed value of the property....not to mention property tax homestead exemptions.

    It's important to note that some states do have a separate state income tax to pay, and some don't. For those that do, the rates are often graduated and therefore progressive.

    It's ALSO important that sales/excise taxes do not constitute the majority of revenue for certain states. Especially if a progressive income tax exists, because that combined with a property tax is always > sales/excise tax. If I remember correctly, most states are more reliant on sales/excise taxes for revenue....just because they're easier to collect and involve less bureaucracy. But who can you hold accountable for that, besides your own state?
    Last edited by Jeezy; 07-20-11 at 08:05 PM.
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  7. #97
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    Re: Does the average citizen harbor envy/jealousy, hatred for the extremely wealthy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mach View Post
    Be careful in such assumption. I encourage you to find and post data from CBO on this, before claiming it. I suspect you're off by a factor of 10.
    I don't know of data on that. If you do, please post it. But even if I were off by a factor of 10 and somebody with a $1m/year income spent 10% of their income on taxable goods and services, that would still be extraordinarily regressive, right?

  8. #98
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    Re: Does the average citizen harbor envy/jealousy, hatred for the extremely wealthy?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant Noodle View Post
    I personally dont give a flying **** how much money a person has. I care about what is in that persons heart and mind. I have family members that have many millions and to me they are some of the biggest losers I know because they have crap personalities.
    does that color your advocacy of taxing all those who make more than 200K a year more?



  9. #99
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    Re: Does the average citizen harbor envy/jealousy, hatred for the extremely wealthy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeezy View Post
    Okay, but sales and excise taxes tend to be naturally regressive because they exist in the form of general rates and that's it. I mean...that's just the nature.
    Exactly. So there you go. That's a big part of our nation's tax scheme that is regressive.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeezy View Post
    Property taxes are progressive because the rate goes up in proportion to the assessed value of the property....not to mention property tax homestead exemptions.
    No, that's not true. Yes, the rate goes up in some states, but even in those states that would make it progressive relative to the value of the property, not relative to the income of the owner. Regressive means relative to the income of the owner, and it still is. The percentage of somebody's income that goes to housing drops off rapidly as income goes up.

    As for the homestead exemption, that actually makes it more regressive. It means that rental properties pay higher property taxes than homes the owner lives in. They pass that on to the renter and renters tend to be poorer than owners.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeezy View Post
    It's important to note that some states do have a separate state income tax to pay, and some don't. For those that do, the rates are often graduated and therefore progressive.
    We don't need to guess about these things. The numbers are well known. The average American pays 27% in taxes total. The top 1% pays 18%. The upper middle class pays as high as 43%.

  10. #100
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    Re: Does the average citizen harbor envy/jealousy, hatred for the extremely wealthy?

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    Since I am WELL above average, I cannot participate in this poll. Sorry.

    But if I WERE average, I would answer no.
    Your extrapolated answer is invalid, since not trend can be inferred from you well above averageness. A Yes answer is just as likely.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

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