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Do The Rich Need Saving?

Do The Rich Need Saving?

  • Total voters
    54
Boo Radley said:
Nope. No one can admit for someone else. No can admit anything that takes the palce of actual and factual data. Your argument is so flawed that if you were in a formal debate, you'd be laughed off the stage. This is not the type of thing any one can admit to. Sorry.
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You seem unable to comprehend the obvious point. I am merely pointing out what OBAMA believes. He believes that the rich do not benefit from spending and do not sacrifice or give something up when government spending is cut.
 
TurtleDude said:
You seem unable to comprehend the obvious point. I am merely pointing out what OBAMA believes. He believes that the rich do not benefit from spending and do not sacrifice or give something up when government spending is cut.
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This is the point: I doen't matter what he BELIEVES!!!!! Belief is not the criteria we make judges on in this type of subject.
 
Boo Radley said:
This is the point: I doen't matter what he BELIEVES!!!!! Belief is not the criteria we make judges on in this type of subject.
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well if we are talking about what motivates the president of a party that tends to promote policies that prevent people from becoming rich, I think it is important to understand what his beliefs are.

this thread demands an opinion and I find it interesting that you pretend that some sort of logic is going to be the only source for an answer
 
TurtleDude said:
well if we are talking about what motivates the president of a party that tends to promote policies that prevent people from becoming rich, I think it is important to understand what his beliefs are.

this thread demands an opinion and I find it interesting that you pretend that some sort of logic is going to be the only source for an answer
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No, it really isn't. First, you can read his mind, and you've proven a poor interpreter of his comments. But none of that matters. Nothing here is settle by belief or admission, but instead by the factors that are involved with the economy and governing.

The rich can handle themselves. All these years, and they haven't jump ship on being rich. You want to worry about a class, you might consider putting some of this energy on worrying about the middle class, who haven't done well regardless of who is president of late.
 
Boo Radley said:
No, it really isn't. First, you can read his mind, and you've proven a poor interpreter of his comments. But none of that matters. Nothing here is settle by belief or admission, but instead by the factors that are involved with the economy and governing.

The rich can handle themselves. All these years, and they haven't jump ship on being rich. You want to worry about a class, you might consider putting some of this energy on worrying about the middle class, who haven't done well regardless of who is president of late.
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you have an opinion that my interpretation is poor. I find your opinion specious and unsupported by either logic or a rational conclusion.

The middle class is where most of those who are millionaires today were yesterday. The only thing we can really do about that is hurting the middle class is the entitlement addiction that stifles ambition and desire. the other things-such as globalization of manufacturing and skilled cheaper labor overseas we cannot prevent though we can try to convince people that if they want above average (globally) wages and standards of living, they have to be able to provide above average skills
 
Catawba said:
Then stop waging it against the working class.
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doing well and making money is not waging war against the working class anymore than studying hard and making top grades is waging warfare against lazy and stupid students
 
BTW, TD, before you continue your effort to run away from what you really said, this is the comment that started our discussion:

Turtle Dude said:
Obama admitted last monday that the rich don't benefit from government spending
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This was your answer to evidence that rich did benefit. You did not refute the evidence, you provided no other evidence, you merely said Obama admitted it wasn't so. He can't do that. His admission means nothing to the evidence, even if hemade such an admission, which has not really been entered into evidence at all.

:coffeepap
 
TurtleDude said:
you have an opinion that my interpretation is poor. I find your opinion specious and unsupported by either logic or a rational conclusion.

The middle class is where most of those who are millionaires today were yesterday. The only thing we can really do about that is hurting the middle class is the entitlement addiction that stifles ambition and desire. the other things-such as globalization of manufacturing and skilled cheaper labor overseas we cannot prevent though we can try to convince people that if they want above average (globally) wages and standards of living, they have to be able to provide above average skills
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Dude, I provided links to evidence. You simply told us what you think Obama admitted to. Nothing more. I'm sorry, dude, but that is weak. Real weak. :coffeepap
 
Boo Radley said:
BTW, TD, before you continue your effort to run away from what you really said, this is the comment that started our discussion:



This was your answer to evidence that rich did benefit. You did not refute the evidence, you provided no other evidence, you merely said Obama admitted it wasn't so. He can't do that. His admission means nothing to the evidence, even if hemade such an admission, which has not really been entered into evidence at all.

:coffeepap
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that is what obama clearly implied. he believes that they can only sacrifice by paying more taxes while everyone else only have to live with less government spending

you are trying to defer the obvious implications of Obama's beliefs by diverting this with your patent attempt to confuse a belief with some sort of factual evidence
 
TurtleDude said:
70 years of progressive taxes has created a massive amount of voters who demand more and more government because the Progressive tax system means they really don't have to pay much if anything-of the taxes that pay for all that government
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Yeah those good ole days of socialism that made the strongest middle class in history. Who would want that again! 1 in 7 Americans poor is much better. :sun
 
Boo Radley said:
Dude, I provided links to evidence. You simply told us what you think Obama admitted to. Nothing more. I'm sorry, dude, but that is weak. Real weak. :coffeepap
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NO the real weakness that you won't make a rational counter argument to what I have said



Do you admit or deny that Obama said

1) everyone should sacrifice

2) the rich need to pay more taxes

3) that cutting spending will cause others to sacrifice

the only logical conclusion from this is either

a) the rich need to sacrifice MORE than the others or

b) the rich don't sacrifice by spending cuts so their share of the sacrifice is paying more taxes

argue against that
 
Catawba said:
Yeah those good ole days of socialism that made the strongest middle class in history. Who would want that again! 1 in 7 Americans poor is much better. :sun
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those in poverty in terms of percentages really hasn't changed much over the last 40 years or so.

but we sure have pissed away a ton of wealth improving nothing
 
TurtleDude said:
doing well and making money is not waging war against the working class anymore than studying hard and making top grades is waging warfare against lazy and stupid students
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Forcing the working class to pay more to finance the debt to provide huge tax breaks to the wealthy is waging class warfare. If you think the working class and seniors don't feel under attack, you are in for a big surprise in 2012.
 
TurtleDude said:
those in poverty in terms of percentages really hasn't changed much over the last 40 years or so.

but we sure have pissed away a ton of wealth improving nothing
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Perhaps from the ivory towers you profess to do your internet forum court from, Counselor, you have not noticed that more and more of the middle class are sliding into poverty.

I agree about pissing away money. The biggest waste was the GOP war in Iraq and their tax breaks for rich without any requirement to create jobs or even invest the money in this country.
 
Catawba said:
Forcing the working class to pay more to finance the debt to provide huge tax breaks to the wealthy is waging class warfare. If you think the working class and seniors don't feel under attack, you are in for a big surprise in 2012.
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even with what you call huge tax breaks the rich are PAYING MORE OF THE INCOME TAX SHARE NOW THAN AT ANY TIME IN THE LAST 70 years

massive fail on your part.

You and your dem masters spend a great deal of time telling the ignorant that the rich are attacking them

that might win elections but it is destroying the country.
 
Catawba said:
Perhaps from the ivory towers you profess to do your internet forum court from, Counselor, you have not noticed that more and more of the middle class are sliding into poverty.

I agree about pissing away money. The biggest waste was the GOP war in Iraq and their tax breaks for rich without any requirement to create jobs or even invest the money in this country.
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why isn't your dear leader ending those wars? and the war on poverty was the biggest waste of all because it created more and more dependent minions who continue to demand more and more government
 
TurtleDude said:
doing well and making money is not waging war against the working class anymore than studying hard and making top grades is waging warfare against lazy and stupid students
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who said anything about waging war?
 
TurtleDude said:
even with what you call huge tax breaks the rich are PAYING MORE OF THE INCOME TAX SHARE NOW THAN AT ANY TIME IN THE LAST 70 years
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Correction, they are paying more only because they are making more. However, the rate they are paying is less. Or, are you suggesting that if we eliminate the Bush tax cuts the wealthy will pay a lower rate? If that is the case, why don't you support elimination of the tax cuts????

Your argument is not logical counselor! :sun
 
Catawba said:
Correction, they are paying more only because they are making more. However, the rate they are paying is less. Or, are you suggesting that if we eliminate the Bush tax cuts the wealthy will pay a lower rate? If that is the case, why don't you support elimination of the tax cuts????

Your argument is not logical counselor! :sun
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what is not logical is your confusing tax rates with TAX BURDENS

I support abolishing taxes on income

then people like you cannot be seduced by pimps who promise to make you feel better by jacking up the tax rates on "the rich"

then those who want to save and invest in their future are not punished as they are now with income taxes

that those who vote for more and more government will not be able to pawn off paying for that government on others

if we MUST have an income tax than each group should pay its share of the tax burden based on their share of the income. If a group makes 22% of the income they should pay 22% of the income tax. If a group makes 5% of the income they should pay 5% of the income tax. that STILL MEANS the "rich" will pay far more than their "fair share" (as based on USE or VALUE RECEIVED) than the poor but it also means that if people like you demand I pay more taxes you will also pay more and you will keep NO MORE of your next dollar than I will

I SUGGEST that such a system is going to make your desire to raise MY taxes a bit less virulent
 
TurtleDude said:
why isn't your dear leader ending those wars?
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I oppose Obama's continuation of the wars, why do you know of a credible candidate in the last election who felt differently? At least Obama has a schedule to end them, McCain was fine with us being there for 100 years!

and the war on poverty was the biggest waste of all because it created more and more dependent minions who continue to demand more and more government
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If we want to reduce poverty, increase employment as trickle down economics has failed to do and we need to start paying a living wage for full-time work. What is your solution, build more prisons and workhouses and more tax cuts for the wealthy?
 
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TurtleDude said:
what is not logical is your confusing tax rates with TAX BURDENS
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As the rich pay less percentage of their total income in total taxes than the working class, they have a smaller burden. That is what you do not get.

I support abolishing taxes on income
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That sense of entitlement appears to have been bred by decades of tax breaks for the wealthy.
 
Catawba said:
I oppose Obama's continuation of the wars, why do you know of a credible candidate in the last election who felt differently? At least Obama has a schedule to end them, McCain was fine with us being there for 100 years!



If we want to reduce poverty, increase employment as trickle down economics has failed to do and we need to start paying a living wage for full-time work. What is your solution, build more prisons and workhouses and more tax cuts for the wealthy?
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raising taxes won't help. all it does is give your dear leaders more "reasons" to spend more money to buy more votes

how can we pay living wages as you call them if they make businesses that are forced to pay them uncompetitive?
 
If there aren't anymore rich people, what do we have? A nation full of poor people?

Someone want to tell me how that's a good thing?
 
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