View Poll Results: Do The Rich Need Saving?

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    7 10.00%
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Thread: Do The Rich Need Saving?

  1. #81
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    Re: Do The Rich Need Saving?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paschendale View Post
    How do truck drivers benefit more than their employers? The drivers don't reap the profits from moving goods around the country. The very nature of employing a truck driver requires that the employers make more from moving the goods than the driver does. Else they would do the driving themselves.
    I was including the entire trucking industry, but that would include independent drivers as well. So are you willing to bill everyone higher for anything they use than those who use them less?
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    Re: Do The Rich Need Saving?

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    I'm not sure if that's entirely true. I've never been able to find real data on effective federal tax rates in the US. If anyone can find this data, please share.
    The very wealthy earn their money through capital gains which has a maximum rate of 15%. Hedge fund managers earn billions per year and pay this rate. Other rich people have various tax shelters available (not you) to them.


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    Re: Do The Rich Need Saving?

    And the tax shelters are bad? I'm sorry, but I'm not about to try and skewer the "rich" anymore when the top 1% of America in terms of wealth pay more in taxes than the bottom 95%. America has the largest overall tax rate in the modern world. So, while the rich may not need "saving", they don't need a bunch of Robin Hoods running around, trying to act like they know how to spend their money better than they do.

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    Re: Do The Rich Need Saving?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gipper View Post
    And the tax shelters are bad? I'm sorry, but I'm not about to try and skewer the "rich" anymore when the top 1% of America in terms of wealth pay more in taxes than the bottom 95%. America has the largest overall tax rate in the modern world. So, while the rich may not need "saving", they don't need a bunch of Robin Hoods running around, trying to act like they know how to spend their money better than they do.
    Were near the top when it comes to income, but that's not the whole picture. Many European nations utilize heavy VAT taxes, for instance. On balance, in terms of tax revenue as a percentage of GDP, we're far behind many other OECD countries.
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    Re: Do The Rich Need Saving?

    Quote Originally Posted by pbrauer View Post
    The very wealthy earn their money through capital gains which has a maximum rate of 15%. Hedge fund managers earn billions per year and pay this rate.
    Many of them don't even pay taxes at all. They loan themselves whatever income they want for the year from their own Fund at 2% interest a year or so, and report no income at all for the year.

    Other rich people have various tax shelters available (not you) to them.
    Very very large shelters.
    Last edited by Oberon; 07-20-11 at 09:25 PM.

  6. #86
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    Re: Do The Rich Need Saving?

    Quote Originally Posted by tessaesque View Post
    I think the balance is the problem. We spend a LOT of money on programs designed to aid the poor in "rising up". And we're not seeing a lot of poor "rising up", even in good economic times. Why would we throw more money at the problem, lessen their responsibilities and the expectations we have for them, or encourage them to continue utilizing programs that aren't helping them advance beyond their current station? Why aren't we creating programs that will actually change the status quo, instead of just holding everything in place??? We have major, major spending problems in this country and nobody is touching them...but the quick fix and the first thing I see time after time is to just tax the "rich" more because they aren't paying their "fair share". How about before we ask ANYBODY to contribute more money to a broken system we actually fix it. It's like handing out more buckets on a leaky ship...sure, it'll give you more time..but ultimately the boat's still full of holes.
    most of those programs pretend to help the poor so their sponsors get credit from the uneducated. in reality they are designed to keep the recipients voting for dems and addicted to entitlements so the sponsors get wealth and power through public office



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    Re: Do The Rich Need Saving?

    Quote Originally Posted by Oberon View Post
    Many of them don't even pay taxes at all. They loan themselves whatever income they want for the year from their own Fund at 2% interest a year or so, and report no income at all for the year.



    Very very large shelters.

    I would ask for proof but I have read the IRS data enough to know there is none. even with all the breaks you whine about the top one percent still pay 40% of the income taxes though the uber wealthy pay a lower rate (due to their income mainly being capital gains) than the majority of those in the top 1 percent-those making more than about 375 K and Less than Five million



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    Re: Do The Rich Need Saving?

    from Turtle

    even with all the breaks you whine about the top one percent still pay 40% of the income taxes though the uber wealthy pay a lower rate (due to their income mainly being capital gains) than the majority of those in the top 1 percent-those making more than about 375 K and Less than Five million
    Which is an excellent reason why all forms of money going into someone's account or pocket should be taxed as income at whatever is the normal rate for that income level.
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    Re: Do The Rich Need Saving?

    Quote Originally Posted by tessaesque View Post
    The government is not the economy,
    It pretty much is, and has been for a while now. 'Free enterprise' fails often and needs the government to keep the illusion going, especially technology research and basic science.

    Secondly, does it matter if Bill Gates or Steve Jobs invented it?
    So, you're agreeing they are irrelevant, you just hate to agree with me on that, and concocted some sort of semantic hand wave here hoping nobody noticed that they are indeed irrelevant. Thanks again.

    They are rich men who own companies that benefit the country. Period. The rest is pretty much inconsequential and your argument sucks.
    They are men who boosted a lot of research from others, and got in the ground floor of an infant industry, one entirely created and developed by public money.

    Quote Originally Posted by tessaesque View Post
    What is with today, today? I seriously must have fallen through a blackhole or something.

    My original (and only) point was that rich people are not automatically worthless "drains" on society, and that some (or even many) of them founded, own, or operate companies that greatly benefit the "little man" in this country. Bill Gates owns a multi-billion dollar company which employs millions of people and sells millions of products each year. That benefits every single aspect of the U.S. economy. Therefore, Bill Gates founding and ownership of a company makes him valuable as a "rich person".
    No, you just think the 'private sector' is far more 'private' than it actually is. That's an ideological illusion, not fact. Government spending is part of the GDP calculations too, which you apparently aren't aware of, and the tech subsidies all these faux 'Self Made Billionaires' got their wealth from are the heaviest contributors to the economy.

    Your argument was idiotic. I'm very sorry if it's hard to admit that. It's okay, though. You can try again next time.
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    Re: Do The Rich Need Saving?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    I would ask for proof but I have read the IRS data enough to know there is none.
    And my Dad is the Pope and my Mom was Mother Teresa. Congratulations.

    even with all the breaks you whine about the top one percent still pay 40% of the income taxes though the uber wealthy pay a lower rate (due to their income mainly being capital gains) than the majority of those in the top 1 percent-those making more than about 375 K and Less than Five million
    They pay 40% while making over 58% of the total income, which of course means they aren't paying their share, going by your numbers. Since they also own over 80% of the wealth, they are also hiding income overseas, through corporate fronts and the loopholes for overseas earnings. One drug company in particular was holding over $48 billion in earnings in the Netherlands banks, which worked out to about $6 a share. Do you think you included that in the numbers, along with all the other earnings and unpaid dividends stashed overseas?

    $375K to $5 million is middle class, not 'wealthy', but these days the media and the Party hacks have the yokels convinced $50K is 'middle class', but that's another topic.

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