View Poll Results: Do The Rich Need Saving?

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  • Yes

    7 10.00%
  • No

    59 84.29%
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    0 0%
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    4 5.71%
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Thread: Do The Rich Need Saving?

  1. #61
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    Re: Do The Rich Need Saving?

    Quote Originally Posted by tessaesque View Post
    I have a huge problem with punishing those who work, succeed, and already pay taxes for the sake of funneling more money to those who don't....ESPECIALLY if we're still waiting on a "fix" for the programs that are causing these people to fail/stagnate, as well as every other program, department, and organization which receives money from the government. Fix first, charge after...if it's necessary.
    The thing is, they don't want to fix it. Fixing it means serious cuts for their voter base, which will cost them elections. They'd rather pretend to fix it, make imaginary cuts and get more money to keep funding the absurd mandates. You just will never see them making serious and immediate cuts to social programs. It's a pipe dream.
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  2. #62
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    Re: Do The Rich Need Saving?

    FWIW, I keep reading the thread title as "Do The Rich Need Shaving?....
    "Hmmm...Can't decide if I want to watch "Four Houses" or give myself an Icy Hot pee hole enema..." - Blake Shelton


  3. #63
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    Re: Do The Rich Need Saving?

    Of course they dont...they have NONE of the worries that the working class have...they dont worry about their mortgage, food on the table, car insurance, health insurance, they dont have to worry where in the hell they are going to get the tuition to send their kids through college so they can have a better life....their biggest stress is if the bush tax cuts are going to expire and how they are going to convince the rest of us how bad they have it and how good public workers have it.

  4. #64
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    Re: Do The Rich Need Saving?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    The thing is, they don't want to fix it. Fixing it means serious cuts for their voter base, which will cost them elections. They'd rather pretend to fix it, make imaginary cuts and get more money to keep funding the absurd mandates. You just will never see them making serious and immediate cuts to social programs. It's a pipe dream.
    Amnd why haven't republcians fixed it then? There have been times republicans have controlled it all, and somehow during their tenure, not only have things not been fixed, but very little has been doen at all.

    This is not a party thing. This is a national issue that both parties should work together on.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  5. #65
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    Re: Do The Rich Need Saving?

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Consider Bill Gates. He started Microsoft as a college dropout and has become the world's richest person. Though he has undoubtedly benefited from his unusual intelligence and business acumen, he could not have created or sustained his personal wealth without the common wealth. The legal system protected Microsoft's intellectual property and contracts. The tax-supported financial infrastructure enabled him to access capital markets and trade his stock in a market in which investors have confidence. He built his company with many employees educated in public schools and universities. Tax-funded research helped develop computer science and the internet. Trade laws negotiated and enforced by the government protect his ability to sell his products abroad. These are but a few of the ways in which Mr. Gates' accumulation of wealth was empowered by the common wealth and by taxation.

    As Warren Buffet famously observed, he likely couldn't have achieved his financial success had he been born in Bangladesh instead of the United States, because Bangladesh had no banking system and no stock market.
    The problem for your argument is that these things exist for every American, not just the privileged few. Gates did what he did, using existing publically available resources that *ANYONE* can access. He made his money because of his own skills. The same for Buffet. They had no special access, thus they derived no special benefits. Anyone who had the same skills and the same drive and the same ideas that Gates did in the 70s and 80s could be where Gates is today. Cut Gates out of the equation and we probably wouldn't have a Microsoft analog today.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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  6. #66
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    Re: Do The Rich Need Saving?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    The problem for your argument is that these things exist for every American, not just the privileged few. Gates did what he did, using existing publically available resources that *ANYONE* can access. He made his money because of his own skills. The same for Buffet. They had no special access, thus they derived no special benefits. Anyone who had the same skills and the same drive and the same ideas that Gates did in the 70s and 80s could be where Gates is today. Cut Gates out of the equation and we probably wouldn't have a Microsoft analog today.
    Exist? Sure. Use? No. The wealthy use them more, and benefit from them more.



    The measure describes how well the wealthy have done lately, citing statistics that say the median income of S&P 500 companies chief financial officers jumped $2.9 million last year alone, even though the "median family income has declined by more than $2,500" in the last 10 years.

    The resolution also notes that 20 percent all income goes to the top 1 percent, and 80 percent of the nation's income growth over the last quarter century has also gone to the top 1 percent.

    Jeff Sessions: Saying Millionaires Should Share Pain Is 'Rather Pathetic'


    The wealthy, he said, ought to pay progressively higher percentages of their incomes in taxes because they benefit more from national security, education and other government services than people with lower wages.

    Most of the wealthy would disagree, Kortenhaus acknowledged. “There are too many people who are arrogant. They think they worked hard to get their wealth. In some cases, that is true. But many inherited their wealth or are people who have been fortunate or lucky in business or their inventions,” he said.



    Read more: Millionaires and their tax request - San Antonio Express-News

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  7. #67
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    Re: Do The Rich Need Saving?

    Thinks that some people need to look up the definition of “fair” in the dictionary, by definition a progressive tax system is not fair. Being fair is not allowing 47% of the working population to pay no federal income tax, while 10% of the working population pays roughly 45% of all federal income tax … so I guess I need to ask some here what is their meaning … when they say they want someone to pay their “fair” share ??

    Then it comes to getting from the government, while those 47 percent that pay nothing, apparently still uses everything the government supplies, and pay nothing …. are they paying their “fair” share?

    10 percent of the working pay for 45% of the cost of building and maintaining those same things … now to many percentages don't mean much so lets put actual numbers to this … there are roughly 150 million people in our work force.

    47% or 70,500,000 people pay nothing in federal income tax to pay for these things, using 2008 figures 10% of the population or 15 million people paid 45% of 2.5 trillion or or 922 billion dollars

    So in all fairness … tell me who paid their fair share

    15 million people that paid 922 billion dollars in federal income tax
    or
    70.5 million people that paid nothing in federal income tax ??

  8. #68
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    Re: Do The Rich Need Saving?

    No, I think it is fair. Those who get more, should pay more. This is fundamentally fair.

    $400 billion in tax breaks seen favoring wealthy
    By Ben Rooney and Julianne Pepitone, staff reportersSeptember 22, 2010: 2:37 PM ET


    NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- The United States spent nearly $400 billion last fiscal year to fund tax breaks and programs aimed at helping Americans build wealth, but the majority of that money went to the highest earning taxpayers, according to a report released Wednesday.

    Tax policies gave $400 billion to the wealthy - Sep. 22, 2010

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  9. #69
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    Re: Do The Rich Need Saving?

    Quote Originally Posted by tessaesque View Post
    I have a huge problem with punishing those who work, succeed, and already pay taxes for the sake of funneling more money to those who don't....ESPECIALLY if we're still waiting on a "fix" for the programs that are causing these people to fail/stagnate, as well as every other program, department, and organization which receives money from the government. Fix first, charge after...if it's necessary.
    I never understood this mentality that taxes are a punishment. It's not like higher income ever reaches diminishing returns. Or that somehow strengthening the country as a whole by providing more resources for it to accomplish its goals is somehow a punishment. If we all pitch in, the nation becomes stronger, and we all benefit. Even using the term punishment is strange to me. It supposes that government is an authoritarian parent, rather than an organization that exists for no other purpose than to execute our will. It works for us, not the other way around. (Not getting into the issues of how vast corporate wealth makes the government only work for the highest bidder.)

    Taxes are just paying the upkeep on the country. That's it. To say that taxes are a punishment would be to say that paying for something you buy is a punishment. No one takes that position, do they? We put money, the fruit of our collective labor, into the coffer, and the government then gives us things in return. It's a business transaction. And to reap the benefits of that government, and the fruits of everyone's collective labor (because absolutely no one only lives off of the fruits of their own labor), and then demand not to pay for them... that's like eating a feast at a restaurant and then skipping out on the bill.
    Liberté. Égalité. Fraternité.

  10. #70
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    Re: Do The Rich Need Saving?

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    No, I think it is fair. Those who get more, should pay more. This is fundamentally fair.
    THEY DO PAY MORE???? Do you not understand simple math dealing with total percentages of income?!?!?!

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