View Poll Results: Do The Rich Need Saving?

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  • Yes

    7 10.00%
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    59 84.29%
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Thread: Do The Rich Need Saving?

  1. #41
    Sage
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    Re: Do The Rich Need Saving?

    Quote Originally Posted by MusicAdventurer View Post
    Only as far as grade 12, most poor can't afford to go to college without scholarships, not everyone is able to preform well enough in school (sometimes due to environmental situations, e.g. a disruptive home environment), and those poor that are aren't guaranteed a scholarship. So here we definitely do not see equal opportunity.
    Since in many poor school districts, there is a better than 50% drop out rate in high school, we certainly can't blame inability to afford college as a factor. They had the opportunity, they squandered it. Now I will say that college can be expensive. I paid my own way 100%. I worked 2 jobs and took a full-time course load. I didn't sleep much, I had very little social life, but I did it and so can anyone else who puts their mind to it. So... equal opportunity.

    I've heard this argument time and time again ... many is a subjective word and the accurate word is few (relatively speaking) ... so again, we see too little upward socioeconomic mobility due to a lack of equal opportunity
    No, not few. Oh, maybe only a few, relatively speaking, are willing to put in the work and avoid the pitfalls, but of those that do, many do get out just fine. Just because people are lazy doesn't mean they're incapable. It's the ones who stay out of gangs, who stay off drugs, who don't have a pile of illegitimate kids by the time they're 18, who don't party all the time, who work hard... those are the ones that make it. It's hardly my fault that the ghetto culture teaches kids not to do that. That's not a fault of the system, it's a failure of the culture.

    I don't think anyone is implying that it is your fault
    It's not anyone's fault except the people who make the mistakes.

    That is good, you should be very proud of yourself, you are among the few that can do that. I will avoid asking you what socioeconomic class you were brought up in and simply say ... regardless of what class you were brought up in, you likely had more help than you realize. This is the one thing I do not understand about American ideology ... that is the obsessive tendency for those to value independence rather than acknowledging how much others help each other and that its not a crime to help or be helped. In my opinion, teamwork is more admirable than suborn independence.
    No, I'm not among the few who can do it, anyone who wants to do it can do it. Ultimately, regardless of how much help one has, it's an individual decision to actually do what needs to be done. For far too many people, they demand that everything be given to them on a silver platter. If it's hard to do, they give up and claim discrimination. Teamwork is a fine thing, but only when it actually accomplishes something. For far too many, they don't mind having the team, they just don't want to do the work.
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  2. #42
    warrior of the wetlands
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    Re: Do The Rich Need Saving?

    Quote Originally Posted by MusicAdventurer View Post
    LMAO ... look who it is! Good to see you buddy! Sticking to your "lets make the rich richer" argument as usual are we?
    the rich are rich because they are good at making money and they often do stuff that others find valuable

    You seem interested in punishing them for that



  3. #43
    warrior of the wetlands
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    Re: Do The Rich Need Saving?

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    More false premise. No reasonable person argues all their money should be taken away or that there should be no taxes. This is about fair share. Those who benefit most should pay more. The argument is just that simple.
    well what is the limit.what is a fair share? you want a system that fair share is whatever you decide it should be

    fair share-if one group makes 22% of the income they should pay 22% of the income tax? how is 40% More fair?



  4. #44
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    Re: Do The Rich Need Saving?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    well what is the limit.what is a fair share? you want a system that fair share is whatever you decide it should be

    fair share-if one group makes 22% of the income they should pay 22% of the income tax? how is 40% More fair?
    A moving target, but certainly, with rates as low as they are, historically low, a return to the pre Bush tax cuts would not be an excessive burden. And yes, we as a society can agree on what is reasonably fair. Neither you or I alone can do this however.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  5. #45
    warrior of the wetlands
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    Re: Do The Rich Need Saving?

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    A moving target, but certainly, with rates as low as they are, historically low, a return to the pre Bush tax cuts would not be an excessive burden. And yes, we as a society can agree on what is reasonably fair. Neither you or I alone can do this however.
    so if you restore the clinton rates (which involves raising dividend taxes from 15% to almost 40%) without restoring the clinton rates on everyone else the top one percent will be paying even more than 40% of the income tax

    why is that fair? You prove you cannot come up with an objective model and that is why we need a system were no one group can have their taxes raised without everyone else getting a hike as well (and why would you oppose that?)



  6. #46
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    Re: Do The Rich Need Saving?

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    More false premise. No reasonable person argues all their money should be taken away or that there should be no taxes. This is about fair share. Those who benefit most should pay more. The argument is just that simple.
    So how will those on welfare, food stamps, medicaid, school lunch voucher programs, and section 8 housing vouchers pay more, exactly?

    Or do you mean those who are more successful should pay more?
    "Hmmm...Can't decide if I want to watch "Four Houses" or give myself an Icy Hot pee hole enema..." - Blake Shelton


  7. #47
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    Re: Do The Rich Need Saving?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    so if you restore the clinton rates (which involves raising dividend taxes from 15% to almost 40%) without restoring the clinton rates on everyone else the top one percent will be paying even more than 40% of the income tax

    why is that fair? You prove you cannot come up with an objective model and that is why we need a system were no one group can have their taxes raised without everyone else getting a hike as well (and why would you oppose that?)
    Hell, they benefit more than that. A good deal more. That's why they are running around bemoaning being rich. No one is saying they rather be poor.

    But if you follow tax history in this country, you would know that increase would not be excessive or more than has been paid before.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  8. #48
    warrior of the wetlands
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    Re: Do The Rich Need Saving?

    Quote Originally Posted by tessaesque View Post
    So how will those on welfare, food stamps, medicaid, school lunch voucher programs, and section 8 housing vouchers pay more, exactly?

    Or do you mean those who are more successful should pay more?
    many on the left think that those who do well were GIVEN more by the government which is a lie



  9. #49
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    Re: Do The Rich Need Saving?

    Quote Originally Posted by tessaesque View Post
    So how will those on welfare, food stamps, medicaid, school lunch voucher programs, and section 8 housing vouchers pay more, exactly?

    Or do you mean those who are more successful should pay more?
    Do those people really need to pay more? They pay less than I do and you don't see me whining. Frankly, instead of whining, we should seek better ways of moving more of them up, a helping hand that teaches them to fish if you will.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  10. #50
    warrior of the wetlands
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    Re: Do The Rich Need Saving?

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Hell, they benefit more than that. A good deal more. That's why they are running around bemoaning being rich. No one is saying they rather be poor.

    But if you follow tax history in this country, you would know that increase would not be excessive or more than has been paid before.
    OK its worthless to discuss this more. You want to tax the rich as much as you can but you cannot come close to fashioning a rational argument and to claim that the top one percent use 40-50% of the government's service is beyond ludicrous

    I will have to dig up Hatuey's comment about the matter-it was excellent. If we take the country's entire history the current taxes on the rich are higher than the average.



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