View Poll Results: Do The Rich Need Saving?

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  • Yes

    7 10.00%
  • No

    59 84.29%
  • Not Sure

    0 0%
  • Other/explain

    4 5.71%
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Thread: Do The Rich Need Saving?

  1. #431
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    Re: Do The Rich Need Saving?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    The questions seek to obfuscate the moral imperative. Typical conservative.

    That is what I spoke to.
    There is no moral imperative. If these people have caused their own problems, they deserve to deal with the consequences of their own actions. I'm sorry liberals have no concept of personal responsibility.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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  2. #432
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    Re: Do The Rich Need Saving?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    There is no moral imperative. If these people have caused their own problems, they deserve to deal with the consequences of their own actions. I'm sorry liberals have no concept of personal responsibility.
    Yeah, people need to take responsibility for being born poor, not having access to sufficient education, having skin too dark to be hired for a job, living under the constant threat of violence, and being treated like second class citizens.

    Whereas those who swindle millions of dollars, break business laws, skip out on paying taxes, engage in bribery, and make the decisions to harm the many for their own benefit... they don't need to take responsibility for their actions. They get a free pass.

    What I and mine are advocating is getting those in poverty out of it, so they have the chance to take responsibility and make something of themselves. We recognize that those who are trapped in poverty do not have the means to make those choices and take those risks that are necessary to advance. You need some amount of safety net. Middle class people have one by virtue of just being middle class and having the things that middle class comes with, like property ownership, an education, and some savings. The poor class do not have those things. It takes those things to be anything more than a victim in our society.

    Your callous comment is like telling a person with no feet to get up and walk to the grocery store, and not expect us to furnish them with a wheel chair, and that they deserve to starve if they can't build one themselves.
    Liberté. Égalité. Fraternité.

  3. #433
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    Re: Do The Rich Need Saving?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paschendale View Post
    Yeah, people need to take responsibility for being born poor, not having access to sufficient education, having skin too dark to be hired for a job, living under the constant threat of violence, and being treated like second class citizens.

    Whereas those who swindle millions of dollars, break business laws, skip out on paying taxes, engage in bribery, and make the decisions to harm the many for their own benefit... they don't need to take responsibility for their actions. They get a free pass.

    What I and mine are advocating is getting those in poverty out of it, so they have the chance to take responsibility and make something of themselves. We recognize that those who are trapped in poverty do not have the means to make those choices and take those risks that are necessary to advance. You need some amount of safety net. Middle class people have one by virtue of just being middle class and having the things that middle class comes with, like property ownership, an education, and some savings. The poor class do not have those things. It takes those things to be anything more than a victim in our society.

    Your callous comment is like telling a person with no feet to get up and walk to the grocery store, and not expect us to furnish them with a wheel chair, and that they deserve to starve if they can't build one themselves.
    what exactly creates an affirmative duty on Cephus or others to fund such people if Cephus has no role in their status or condition?

    and contrary to your beliefs, opposing income redistribution as a government vote buying scheme is not the same as opposing charity to those who need it



  4. #434
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    Re: Do The Rich Need Saving?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    There is no moral imperative. If these people have caused their own problems, they deserve to deal with the consequences of their own actions. I'm sorry liberals have no concept of personal responsibility.
    If you consider that rich folks taking the tax breaks we gave them and investing them in other countries and laying off workers here to be the fault of the working class who are being forced into poverty, I suppose that would make sense.

    Are you trying to say that because people were stupid enough to vote for the GOP, they deserve what they get???
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  5. #435
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    Re: Do The Rich Need Saving?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paschendale View Post
    Yeah, people need to take responsibility for being born poor, not having access to sufficient education, having skin too dark to be hired for a job, living under the constant threat of violence, and being treated like second class citizens.

    Whereas those who swindle millions of dollars, break business laws, skip out on paying taxes, engage in bribery, and make the decisions to harm the many for their own benefit... they don't need to take responsibility for their actions. They get a free pass.

    What I and mine are advocating is getting those in poverty out of it, so they have the chance to take responsibility and make something of themselves. We recognize that those who are trapped in poverty do not have the means to make those choices and take those risks that are necessary to advance. You need some amount of safety net. Middle class people have one by virtue of just being middle class and having the things that middle class comes with, like property ownership, an education, and some savings. The poor class do not have those things. It takes those things to be anything more than a victim in our society.

    Your callous comment is like telling a person with no feet to get up and walk to the grocery store, and not expect us to furnish them with a wheel chair, and that they deserve to starve if they can't build one themselves.
    Reposting because of the great truth you expressed so eloquently here.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  6. #436
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    Re: Do The Rich Need Saving?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paschendale View Post
    Yeah, people need to take responsibility for being born poor, not having access to sufficient education, having skin too dark to be hired for a job, living under the constant threat of violence, and being treated like second class citizens.

    Whereas those who swindle millions of dollars, break business laws, skip out on paying taxes, engage in bribery, and make the decisions to harm the many for their own benefit... they don't need to take responsibility for their actions. They get a free pass.
    They do and I never see anyone demanding this administration stop giving out those passes.

  7. #437
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    Re: Do The Rich Need Saving?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    If you consider that rich folks taking the tax breaks we gave them and investing them in other countries and laying off workers here to be the fault of the working class who are being forced into poverty, I suppose that would make sense.

    Are you trying to say that because people were stupid enough to vote for the GOP, they deserve what they get???

    You are saying that's it's still not happening? Who is it that's our job czar again?

  8. #438
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    Re: Do The Rich Need Saving?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    what exactly creates an affirmative duty on Cephus or others to fund such people if Cephus has no role in their status or condition?

    and contrary to your beliefs, opposing income redistribution as a government vote buying scheme is not the same as opposing charity to those who need it
    Over and over, you fail to grasp these simple points.

    YES, our enjoyment of the things our system produces and our support of that system makes us responsible for the ills we push onto others. You don't have to pull the trigger yourself to be responsible for the death of another.

    NO, no one is actually trying to buy up votes, despite your constant assurance otherwise. Genuinely trying to help someone does not mean you're trying to bribe them. Have you no compassion at all? You and Jerry both keep repeating this tired old mantra. Democrats only want to help the poor so the poor will vote for them. Democrats only support gay marriage so gays will vote for them. Maybe it's the other way around. Maybe the oppressed people of this country vote for the ones who aren't oppressing them. By that same token, don't you vote for the people representing your interests? Have they bought your vote by giving you tax cuts? Is that somehow more moral than voting for the people who promise to feed your children?

    And lastly... over and over, private charity doesn't solve the problem. Centralized distribution of resources does. Ensuring that no one goes without the things they need does. No amount of selfish greed on your part will ever change that. You don't have a moral right to the wealth and power you possess. You have no more right to not starve than anyone else. You're just lucky that you have power enough to not be one of the ones left in the cold.

    Get your head out of the clouds.
    Liberté. Égalité. Fraternité.

  9. #439
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    Re: Do The Rich Need Saving?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    There is no moral imperative. If these people have caused their own problems, they deserve to deal with the consequences of their own actions. I'm sorry liberals have no concept of personal responsibility.
    That's a pretty big if. I'm sure some of them did, but I would be surprised if the large majority of those people weren't victims of circumstance. Some people will better their lot in life and some people will worsen it, but most people stay pretty much on the path they start on.
    For: legalizing drugs, gay marriage, abortion, guns, universal health care, public sector jobs, nuclear power, free education, progressive taxation
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  10. #440
    Uncanny
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    Re: Do The Rich Need Saving?

    Quote Originally Posted by 1Perry View Post
    They do and I never see anyone demanding this administration stop giving out those passes.
    Um... yeah, we demand it all the time.
    Liberté. Égalité. Fraternité.

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