View Poll Results: Do The Rich Need Saving?

Voters
70. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes

    7 10.00%
  • No

    59 84.29%
  • Not Sure

    0 0%
  • Other/explain

    4 5.71%
Page 41 of 45 FirstFirst ... 313940414243 ... LastLast
Results 401 to 410 of 443

Thread: Do The Rich Need Saving?

  1. #401
    Gradualist

    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Last Seen
    09-25-17 @ 12:48 PM
    Lean
    Socialist
    Posts
    34,949
    Blog Entries
    6

    Re: Do The Rich Need Saving?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Let's see your analysis that made your come to the conclusion that modern pollution control has hurt our economy rather than helped it? Increased welfare is result of trickle down economics and the recession which was brought about by cutting regulation of the banking industry. We have not had such a wide disparity of wealth since the 1920s.
    Very valid points being brought up here... Interesting how this plays out. I suspect massive amounts of graphs.


  2. #402
    Educator

    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Last Seen
    08-15-13 @ 01:41 AM
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    1,034

    Re: Do The Rich Need Saving?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    reading more than a few posts on a thread you jump into spares one embarrassment
    True .. thank you for filling me in

  3. #403
    Disappointed Evolutionist
    Catawba's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Last Seen
    05-28-13 @ 08:15 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    27,254

    Re: Do The Rich Need Saving?

    The class war is the same today as then, only some of the names have changed:

    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  4. #404
    Gradualist

    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Last Seen
    09-25-17 @ 12:48 PM
    Lean
    Socialist
    Posts
    34,949
    Blog Entries
    6

    Re: Do The Rich Need Saving?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    The class war is the same today as then, only some of the names have changed:

    If you want to tax the rich more apparently now its "you have class envy on the job creators and you are starting a class war..."

    But i thought class war looked like this:


  5. #405
    Educator

    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Last Seen
    08-15-13 @ 01:41 AM
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    1,034

    Re: Do The Rich Need Saving?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    reading more than a few posts on a thread you jump into spares one embarrassment
    Again, thank you for filling me in .. however you were somewhat misleading .. as I can tell this post by Catawba:

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Then stop waging it against the working class.
    was a response to the following quote by ElCid:


    Quote Originally Posted by ElCid View Post
    The rich need to SPEND THEIR MONEY, to stimulate the economy. Class warfare is despicable.
    Seeing the whole story enables me to realize what was really going on. ElCid was accusing the lower classes (those that are not "rich") of waging war against the rich. Catawba was correcting ElCid by identifying the fact that if anyone is "waging war", it is the rich who support the elimination of the middle and working classes to the betterment of themselves.

    It seems the rich wish to move toward monopolizing and the working class wish to create a society in which there is true equal opportunity. That is, simply because one person was able to race faster than some slowpoke rich person who had an unfair head start, does not mean that equal opportunity exists; rather it only means that one abnormal person was able to beat the odds and become wealthy. The reason this is not indicative of equal opportunity is that all of the wealthy who have unfair head starts, e.g. inherited money, inherited reputations, inherited access to certain elite clubs, inherited access to ivy league schools etc. (and the list goes on and on). The fact that the wealthy do not want to even the playing field means that they essentially do not wish for there to be good mobility between economic classes.

    Instead, it appears they prefer the status quo. So in a sense, if the wealthy want to keep all of their money and only intend to become even more wealthy, they are not allowing equally skilled yet less fortunate citizens of the lower classes to have a good chance to move up the ladder. While this is not warfare in the typical "blood and guts" sense, I can see how such a conflict which can lead to some having plenty and others enduring hardship, as a type of warfare.

  6. #406
    Disappointed Evolutionist
    Catawba's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Last Seen
    05-28-13 @ 08:15 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    27,254

    Re: Do The Rich Need Saving?

    Bernie Sanders describes very clearly here the class war being waged ~


    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  7. #407
    Professor
    atrasicarius's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Last Seen
    12-23-12 @ 05:36 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Socialist
    Posts
    2,227

    Re: Do The Rich Need Saving?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    If you want to tax the rich more apparently now its "you have class envy on the job creators and you are starting a class war..."

    But i thought class war looked like this:
    I'd be fine with that too.
    For: legalizing drugs, gay marriage, abortion, guns, universal health care, public sector jobs, nuclear power, free education, progressive taxation
    Against: corporations, make-work, the 40 hour work week, intellectual property, imperialism, "homeland security," censorship

  8. #408
    Educator

    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Last Seen
    08-15-13 @ 01:41 AM
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    1,034

    Re: Do The Rich Need Saving?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    massive lie on your part. the rich pay a higher total federal tax rate than the poor-many of whom are GIVEN money by the government. If someone gives you 20,000 dollars and you use that to pay say 4000 dollars of taxes your effective tax rate is not 20%. Its still ZERO since those taxes were actually paid by those whose money was given to you.

    When the rich pay almost twice as much of the tax burden than their share of the income, you lose what little credibility you might have had by claiming that being taxed more than everyone else is a sense of entitlement

    the entitlement is evidenced by people like you who think that you should not even pay the same share of the income tax as your share of the income

    Your rant is based on the assumption that the rich should pay far more taxes because you think they should rather than any objective comparison of income received and taxes paid

    the top few percent ARE THE ONLY GROUP that pay more of the federal income tax burden than their share of the income
    I think what you are not understanding is how the wealthy actually do not feel any burden at all when they pay a higher tax percentage (which they often don't anyway because there are always loopholes to be exploited).

    Here is why they do not feel a burden:

    It is very simple. All one must consider is the cost of living. The cost of living (having a home, transportation, food and so on) does not change when you become wealthy. Therefore, the higher your wage is, the lower the cost of living is as a percent of your income. What this means is that the wealthy have a whole lot of money after they have paid for their cost of living. They can do whatever they like with this money .. even use it to insulate their houses if they want to. However, a small percentage of the money that they have above their cost of living (i.e. the money they have floating around wherever they want it) is paid in income tax.

    As these wealthy individuals will will likely not loose much sleep by not using as much of it as insulation (regular insulation is much better and cheaper by volume), or by not using it to buy a 10th house, or a 3rd private plane, or a 10th car (all supporting paying less than living wages) or most likely, it will simply sit in a high interest account and accumulate more and more wealth and so on (the amount of frivolous items that money beyond the cost of living can be used for is nearly infinite); this money easily and painlessly can be used by the government for many different purposes (roads etc. including being used as a way to allow more mobility between classes and lessen the hardship of the working class, whom the wealthy depend on for their wealth).

    In fact the only pain that a wealthy person may feel from having to pay a slightly higher percentage in income tax, is the pain that is imagined in their minds. In other words, it may put a dent in their fragile egos, or insult one of their illogical principles. If the wealthy were not aware of the income tax they pay, they likely wouldn't even be aware that the relatively small amount of money were gone .. unless of course they were in a fierce competition with their other wealthy buddies to see who could buy the most and largest homes or the most vintage sports cars, yachts or custom pools (while paying under a living wage for it to be done).

    It would be like a person ends up owning a 10,000 acre lot with every square inch packed with fruits, vegetables, livestock etc.. Lets say a person could only consume 1,000 acres of product within his/her lifetime. Now lets imagine that that person got extremely upset if a visitor who had no property dared to ask for ten acres (lets assume that is what it would take for them to live off) to use to survive and they would promise to help out in maintaining a portion of the landowner's lot in return. If you can understand this analogy, you can see how absolutely ridiculous it is that the wealthy get all worked up at the thought of paying their fair share (i.e. a slightly higher percentage of income tax, offset by wealth-friendly loopholes) in income tax.

    Obviously, the person with the 10,000 acre lot is the wealthy person and the visitor is someone born into poverty. How dare that visitor ask to work for a living wage .. even worse how dare that visitor ask for a portion of my property in return for his/her services; that's my property, even if I will never use it, a large reason I have it is due to inheretence and it would have gone to waist anyway. The nerve!

  9. #409
    Sage

    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Last Seen
    Today @ 10:08 AM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    89,622

    Re: Do The Rich Need Saving?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Bernie Sanders describes very clearly here the class war being waged ~


    Senator Bernie Sanders is the best single member of Congress in Washington DC. He is one of the few who lays out reality and truth in stark terms and speaks directly to the War on America being waged by the corporations and wealthy.
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

  10. #410
    Uncanny
    Paschendale's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    New York City
    Last Seen
    03-31-16 @ 04:08 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Socialist
    Posts
    12,510

    Re: Do The Rich Need Saving?



    This is what class warfare looks like. A long line of desperate people who can't feed their families, because they had no job security, never got paid enough to have any kind of savings, no education, and no power. This is half of the American population. The people in this picture haven't got jobs, because the jobs disappeared in order to make company profits higher. And the members of this class who do have jobs have no security, no leverage. Every day they're reminded that tomorrow they could end up on this line.

    This is what class warfare really looks like.
    Liberté. Égalité. Fraternité.

Page 41 of 45 FirstFirst ... 313940414243 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •