View Poll Results: Do The Rich Need Saving?

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  • Yes

    7 10.00%
  • No

    59 84.29%
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    4 5.71%
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Thread: Do The Rich Need Saving?

  1. #31
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    Re: Do The Rich Need Saving?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    Hey, I'll be the first to say we ought to cut corporate welfare. However, you're talking about individuals, not corporations. Not everyone who has lots of money has anything to do with corporate welfare. Why should they get fleeced?
    We're actually talking about both. And no one is getting fleeced. The tax rate has been quite low, historically low, and rasing a few percentage points is not fleecing. Nor is there any lines for the wealthy wanting to give their money and status up. Again, you have the framing of this all wrong.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  2. #32
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    Re: Do The Rich Need Saving?

    Quote Originally Posted by tessaesque View Post
    His company, which is why he is rich, benefits the economy. I'm pretty sure that's obvious (and was also mentioned in my post).
    Really? Gates invented computers and software??? They wouldn't have been invented without him or Jobs??? Amazing. Did they invent the internet too? How about Snapple?

    And here we all thought the Federal government paid for the research that led to all that, and the universities, and the employees training, protected the markets they're sold in, the shipping lanes, the interstate highways making the markets accessible, patent law protections, etc., etc, etc, etc, ad infinitum that made them possible, or conceivable in the first place.

    But, no, it was Bill Gates and Steve Jobs!!!

    And Reagan! We wouldn't have a computer industry if the Grenadans hadn't been driven back in the very nick of time.

    Thanks Ron, and Bill, and Steve!
    Last edited by Oberon; 07-20-11 at 05:37 PM.

  3. #33
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    Re: Do The Rich Need Saving?

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    We're actually talking about both. And no one is getting fleeced. The tax rate has been quite low, historically low, and rasing a few percentage points is not fleecing. Nor is there any lines for the wealthy wanting to give their money and status up. Again, you have the framing of this all wrong.
    With ideologies, strawmen to knock down are an absolute necessity; ideologies rarely address reality, or even mimic it, and therefore can't be expected to address real life problems on it's own terms. It just wouldn't be fair.
    Last edited by Oberon; 07-20-11 at 05:45 PM.

  4. #34
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    Re: Do The Rich Need Saving?

    Quote Originally Posted by Oberon View Post
    Really? Gates invented computers and software??? They wouldn't have been invented without him or Jobs??? Amazing. Did they invent the internet too? How about Snapple?

    And here we all thought the Federal government paid for the research that led to all that, and the universities, and the employees training, protected the markets they're sold in, the shipping lanes, the interstate highways making the markets accessible, patent law protections, etc., etc, etc, etc, ad infinitum that made them possible, or conceivable in the first place.

    But, no, it was Bill Gates and Steve Jobs!!!

    And Reagan! We wouldn't have a computer industry if the Grenadans hadn't been driven back in the very nick of time.

    Thanks Ron, and Bill, and Steve!
    The government is not the economy, first of all. Secondly, does it matter if Bill Gates or Steve Jobs invented it? They are rich men who own companies that benefit the country. Period. The rest is pretty much inconsequential and your argument sucks.
    "Hmmm...Can't decide if I want to watch "Four Houses" or give myself an Icy Hot pee hole enema..." - Blake Shelton


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    Re: Do The Rich Need Saving?

    Quote Originally Posted by tessaesque View Post
    The government is not the economy,

    Ah, so your real problem is you don't know what you're talking about. Okay. Thanks for the heads up.

  6. #36
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    Re: Do The Rich Need Saving?

    Quote Originally Posted by Oberon View Post
    Ah, so your real problem is you don't know what you're talking about. Okay. Thanks for the heads up.
    What is with today, today? I seriously must have fallen through a blackhole or something.

    My original (and only) point was that rich people are not automatically worthless "drains" on society, and that some (or even many) of them founded, own, or operate companies that greatly benefit the "little man" in this country. Bill Gates owns a multi-billion dollar company which employs millions of people and sells millions of products each year. That benefits every single aspect of the U.S. economy. Therefore, Bill Gates founding and ownership of a company makes him valuable as a "rich person".

    Your argument was idiotic. I'm very sorry if it's hard to admit that. It's okay, though. You can try again next time.
    "Hmmm...Can't decide if I want to watch "Four Houses" or give myself an Icy Hot pee hole enema..." - Blake Shelton


  7. #37
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    Re: Do The Rich Need Saving?

    This current mad rash of threads about the rich are idiotic and fail to address certain obvious facts

    1) the rich pay a huge share of the income tax

    2) the definition of rich is not defined and many want to use what billionaires do or can do to justify jacking up taxes on those whose income place them much closer-if not actually in-the middle class. Certainly many of those in the top 2% are far more like those makingn 85-200K a year than they are to those making 200 million a year yet their tax rates are the same as billionaires or mega millionaires

    3) using the attitude of many in these threads as a guide, one can justify taxing anyone to the point that they have no more left than the "average" or increasing taxes more and more as long as there is at least ONE american who doesn't have everything the left believes they should have. what is to stop with the rich being limited to two houses? the mentality of some on this thread is that if someone is homeless or living in a substandard apartment its unfair that others are living in even one large spacious house.

    Envy permeates many of the posts on these threads and everyone who is honest understands that. when someone can prove that most poor people are poor due to the direct and intentional actions of the rich, then maybe this nonsense will have some value. But one should remember the rich are hardly monolithic in their politics-the dems have as many or more millionaire senators and congressmen as the GOP



  8. #38
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    Re: Do The Rich Need Saving?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    Everyone has equal opportunity, what you're looking for is equal outcome.
    Please, I've mentioned this to others as well; people need to stop assuming they know what other people "are looking for", what other people mean, what they want, etc. If you are not that person, such accusations are completely founded on your opinion and are rude, pathetic tactics to avoid the crux of the argument

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    Everyone in this country has access to a public school education.
    Only as far as grade 12, most poor can't afford to go to college without scholarships, not everyone is able to preform well enough in school (sometimes due to environmental situations, e.g. a disruptive home environment), and those poor that are aren't guaranteed a scholarship. So here we definitely do not see equal opportunity.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    We can look at lots of cases of people who have gotten out of poverty because they cared more about education and a work ethic than they did about the idiotic culture they grew up in
    I've heard this argument time and time again ... many is a subjective word and the accurate word is few (relatively speaking) ... so again, we see too little upward socioeconomic mobility due to a lack of equal opportunity

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    It's not my fault lots of them make the wrong ones.
    I don't think anyone is implying that it is your fault

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    I started off working, 35 years ago or so, at minimum wage. Now I make nowhere near that. I earned my way up the ladder. I made something of myself. Nobody helped me and nobody paid my way but me.
    That is good, you should be very proud of yourself, you are among the few that can do that. I will avoid asking you what socioeconomic class you were brought up in and simply say ... regardless of what class you were brought up in, you likely had more help than you realize. This is the one thing I do not understand about American ideology ... that is the obsessive tendency for those to value independence rather than acknowledging how much others help each other and that its not a crime to help or be helped. In my opinion, teamwork is more admirable than suborn independence.

  9. #39
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    Re: Do The Rich Need Saving?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    This current mad rash of threads about the rich are idiotic and fail to address certain obvious facts

    1) the rich pay a huge share of the income tax

    2) the definition of rich is not defined and many want to use what billionaires do or can do to justify jacking up taxes on those whose income place them much closer-if not actually in-the middle class. Certainly many of those in the top 2% are far more like those makingn 85-200K a year than they are to those making 200 million a year yet their tax rates are the same as billionaires or mega millionaires

    3) using the attitude of many in these threads as a guide, one can justify taxing anyone to the point that they have no more left than the "average" or increasing taxes more and more as long as there is at least ONE american who doesn't have everything the left believes they should have. what is to stop with the rich being limited to two houses? the mentality of some on this thread is that if someone is homeless or living in a substandard apartment its unfair that others are living in even one large spacious house.

    Envy permeates many of the posts on these threads and everyone who is honest understands that. when someone can prove that most poor people are poor due to the direct and intentional actions of the rich, then maybe this nonsense will have some value. But one should remember the rich are hardly monolithic in their politics-the dems have as many or more millionaire senators and congressmen as the GOP
    LMAO ... look who it is! Good to see you buddy! Sticking to your "lets make the rich richer" argument as usual are we?

  10. #40
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    Re: Do The Rich Need Saving?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    This current mad rash of threads about the rich are idiotic and fail to address certain obvious facts

    1) the rich pay a huge share of the income tax

    2) the definition of rich is not defined and many want to use what billionaires do or can do to justify jacking up taxes on those whose income place them much closer-if not actually in-the middle class. Certainly many of those in the top 2% are far more like those makingn 85-200K a year than they are to those making 200 million a year yet their tax rates are the same as billionaires or mega millionaires

    3) using the attitude of many in these threads as a guide, one can justify taxing anyone to the point that they have no more left than the "average" or increasing taxes more and more as long as there is at least ONE american who doesn't have everything the left believes they should have. what is to stop with the rich being limited to two houses? the mentality of some on this thread is that if someone is homeless or living in a substandard apartment its unfair that others are living in even one large spacious house.

    Envy permeates many of the posts on these threads and everyone who is honest understands that. when someone can prove that most poor people are poor due to the direct and intentional actions of the rich, then maybe this nonsense will have some value. But one should remember the rich are hardly monolithic in their politics-the dems have as many or more millionaire senators and congressmen as the GOP
    More false premise. No reasonable person argues all their money should be taken away or that there should be no taxes. This is about fair share. Those who benefit most should pay more. The argument is just that simple.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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