View Poll Results: Do The Rich Need Saving?

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    7 10.00%
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    59 84.29%
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Thread: Do The Rich Need Saving?

  1. #21
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    Re: Do The Rich Need Saving?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    That's the definition of envy. Wanting what someone else has. Just because someone has more than you doesn't entitle you to take it from them. Earn it yourself.
    No one is doing that. Seriously, that framework is inaccurate.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  2. #22
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    Re: Do The Rich Need Saving?

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    No one is doing that. Seriously, that framework is inaccurate.
    No one? Then I guess the 12 hours a day I typically spend at work and the paycheck I bring home every other week must be an illusion. Thanks for enlightening me.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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  3. #23
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    Re: Do The Rich Need Saving?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    No one? Then I guess the 12 hours a day I typically spend at work and the paycheck I bring home every other week must be an illusion. Thanks for enlightening me.
    What does you getting a pay check have to do with what I said? No one here is arguing that they want your paycheck, or that they want the rich to give their stuff to them. And very few are actually envious. It is quite possible to believe in a progressive tax wihtout being envious. I don't begruge those who pay less than I do. Nor do I care much about those who make more. I think this is common.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  4. #24
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    Re: Do The Rich Need Saving?

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    What does you getting a pay check have to do with what I said? No one here is arguing that they want your paycheck, or that they want the rich to give their stuff to them. And very few are actually envious. It is quite possible to believe in a progressive tax wihtout being envious. I don't begruge those who pay less than I do. Nor do I care much about those who make more. I think this is common.
    No, they're saying "those guys over there who make more ought to pay more of the money they worked for, so that I can get things that I didn't work for." That's exactly what I said. Trying to soak the "rich", and let's be honest, the majority of those people are not rich, they are small business owners whose business income is a part of their personal income tax, have no obligation to anyone else who hasn't gotten off their butts to earn the money they get.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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  5. #25
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    Re: Do The Rich Need Saving?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    No, they're saying "those guys over there who make more ought to pay more of the money they worked for, so that I can get things that I didn't work for." That's exactly what I said. Trying to soak the "rich", and let's be honest, the majority of those people are not rich, they are small business owners whose business income is a part of their personal income tax, have no obligation to anyone else who hasn't gotten off their butts to earn the money they get.
    No one is saying that. In a pr\ogressive tax system the thinking is those who benefit more, pay more. It has nothing to with what you're saying.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  6. #26
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    Re: Do The Rich Need Saving?

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    No one is saying that. In a pr\ogressive tax system the thinking is those who benefit more, pay more. It has nothing to with what you're saying.
    For most, those benefits are indirect. You don't charge truck drivers more in gas taxes at the pump because they benefit more from having public highways.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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  7. #27
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    Re: Do The Rich Need Saving?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    For most, those benefits are indirect. You don't charge truck drivers more in gas taxes at the pump because they benefit more from having public highways.
    Not sure of your point, is an indirect benefit not a benefit? Again, the fact is both indirct and sometimes directly (corporate welfare) those with the most, benefit the most. So paying more has little to do with envy, but fair share.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  8. #28
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    Re: Do The Rich Need Saving?

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Not sure of your point, is an indirect benefit not a benefit? Again, the fact is both indirct and sometimes directly (corporate welfare) those with the most, benefit the most. So paying more has little to do with envy, but fair share.
    Hey, I'll be the first to say we ought to cut corporate welfare. However, you're talking about individuals, not corporations. Not everyone who has lots of money has anything to do with corporate welfare. Why should they get fleeced?
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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  9. #29
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    Re: Do The Rich Need Saving?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    There's no suffering allowed by the system
    Really?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    Don't like being poor? Get an education, get a job, be good at it, get promoted, get paid lots of money.
    I agree, however without equal opportunity, healthy taxes and fair wages, this is simply not possible for the vast majority of those in poverty

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    That's not the fault of the system
    Actually, in a system that creates large separations between classes and low mobility between classes, it is partially due to errors in the system

  10. #30
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    Re: Do The Rich Need Saving?

    Quote Originally Posted by MusicAdventurer View Post
    Really?
    Yes, really.

    I agree, however without equal opportunity, healthy taxes and fair wages, this is simply not possible for the vast majority of those in poverty
    Everyone has equal opportunity, what you're looking for is equal outcome. Everyone in this country has access to a public school education. Many do not take advantage of it. That's their fault. We can look at lots of cases of people who have gotten out of poverty because they cared more about education and a work ethic than they did about the idiotic culture they grew up in. Everyone has a choice. It's not my fault lots of them make the wrong ones.

    Actually, in a system that creates large separations between classes and low mobility between classes, it is partially due to errors in the system
    No it's not. Those who work hard can move up just fine. I started off working, 35 years ago or so, at minimum wage. Now I make nowhere near that. I earned my way up the ladder. I made something of myself. Nobody helped me and nobody paid my way but me.

    I have no sympathy for those who refuse to do the same.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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