View Poll Results: Do The Rich Need Saving?

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  • Yes

    7 10.00%
  • No

    59 84.29%
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    0 0%
  • Other/explain

    4 5.71%
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Thread: Do The Rich Need Saving?

  1. #271
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    Re: Do The Rich Need Saving?

    NO.

    They don't deserve our help or votes.

    Why should we vote to help the rich person who neither knows nor cares about you???

    They buy the better food and clothes. They live high on the hog. They have huge houses. They have the better cars. They DON'T DESERVE OUR HELP.

    They're proud, selfish, and materialistic. They deserve greater taxes.

    No, I am NOT playing Devil's Advocate on this issue.

    ___

    I don't like how proud, selfish, and vain rich people can be. Don't even dare to think the rich don't primarily embody these behaviors. Those people don't deserve their mansions and expensive houses.

    I'm still conservative in the social sector and the belief in working had to earn money... but that was warped and perverted into CEOs earning obscene bonuses and the rich living lavishly; well above what is necessary.

    There should be a cap on total wage. Bring it down. Business profits should not be used for personal gratification. It's materialism at its finest.

    They live in such posh houses and live so far above people who are struggling. How can a conservative who can barely pay for insurance have the audacity to vote for the rich and wealthy... to enrich them further... while you take further cuts and suffer?

    Many perverted conservatives and Republicans actually dare to use the Bible to support their vain and materialistic lifestyle.

    Are you broke? Were your benefits cut? Lost your insurance? How could you vote for Republicans who vote to further enrich the poor????

    If you're frugal and you work for what you earn, then I have no problem so long as you don't spend money on things you don't need, like a Hummer or a huge house. It's obscene, materialistic decadence. Get them to understand by taxing them painfully.

    ___

    Simply put, we're suffering while we cut their taxes. It is injustice.

  2. #272
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    Re: Do The Rich Need Saving?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Nope, the actual tax rate was 90% for the top bracket and after deductions and loopholes, it came to an effective rate of about 50 - 60%.
    Not on capital gains. A '90% tax rate' on $100 in capital gains would be $45 maximum, i.e.45%, in the days when the top rate was '90%'. Read the tax forms themselves, and not what somebody on the internet says. Nobody ever paid the top rate then, either.

  3. #273
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    Re: Do The Rich Need Saving?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Barbarian View Post
    The Tax Foundation - Summary of Latest Federal Individual Income Tax Data
    Historical Federal Receipt and Outlay Summary
    here are two sites that maybe you should look at .. the first shows tax receipts collected by the government for each year .. look closely at the years before Reagan cut the top tax rate .. and the years following it you will notice that the government took in more after the tax cuts .. then before the tax cuts .. .in fact by 1990 government revenue actually doubled ..

    Now the 2nd site .. shows that the top 5% bracket actually paid more in taxes in every year after the tax cuts given by Reagan ..

    So lets see after tax cuts we increased government revenue and increased what the top bracket was paying in taxes .. so what part of that is it that you don't agree with ??
    Tax revenues increased because Reagan raised Federal taxes at least 6 times, and then there were the huge capital gains from the wave of LBO's and mergers, i.e. Wall Street junk bond fever, and a real estate bubble. It had squat to with Reagan's tax cuts, and much more to do with Paul Volcker's Fed policies, which are worthy of a thread all by themselves

  4. #274
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    Re: Do The Rich Need Saving?

    Quote Originally Posted by Oberon View Post
    Not on capital gains. A '90% tax rate' on $100 in capital gains would be $45 maximum, i.e.45%, in the days when the top rate was '90%'. Read the tax forms themselves, and not what somebody on the internet says. Nobody ever paid the top rate then, either.
    I have not claimed they paid the top rate. I said 50-60% of the top rate. You say it was 45%. Go with that if you wish. It is still much higher than the effective rate today.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  5. #275
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    Re: Do The Rich Need Saving?

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    I believe I linked some earlier. We talked about corporate welfare, about who uses the courts and other services, and about an educated work force. We dicussed the bailouts, and the breaks. But here's some more:
    Middle class income has not risen in thirty years, while the speculators and the loan sharks who are responsible for this current crisis still get their inflated bonuses.
    How do the rich make their profits? Do they manufacture goods? Then they must ship them on the roads and rails that are built with public money. Did they invent Ebay or Facebook? Then they profit from the internet which was developed originally with government support. Do they hire workers? Then much of their workforce has been educated and trained in public schools, community colleges, universities that are publicly funded. All business and commerce depends on the common infrastructure. Those who benefit extraordinarily from the commons must contribute back their fair share. If they do not, they siphon wealth away from the rest of us. They are asking us to subsidize their luxuries while we pinch pennies and scrape the bottom of the pan.
    Some people might say that the rich deserve their golden hordes, that they earn their wealth by providing jobs. But subsidizing the wealthy at the expense of the rest of us does not create jobs--witness the current levels of unemployment! Moreover, it comes at the direct expense of the real, productive work of the world. Those who choose professions that involve caring for others, nurturing children, teaching, nursing, healing, farming, providing food, clothing and shelter surely deserve rewards for their labor. Now they are being asked to forego the pensions they counted upon for comfort in their old age, the health care they need to remain strong, the education that could allow their children to thrive, the homes they've scrimped and saved for, and to mortage their grandchildren's futures all so that the ultra-rich who profit from their work can avoid their share of our common social responsibilities.

    On Faith Panelists Blog: The rich benefit from society and should give back - Starhawk

    Urbanomics: How the rich and poor benefit from government

    Raise taxes on the rich | Marketplace From American Public Media

    Now anyone can do this google search thingie. Just follow the posts of the prof. But the point is, the rich get a bunch from the government. More than poor, and **** lot more than the middle class. I can find the worlds smallest violin for them if you want.
    Good gawd you use some real winners to try and prove your point ..

    On Faith Panelists Blog: The rich benefit from society and should give back - Starhawk
    Starhawk is a prominent voice in modern Wiccan spirituality and cofounder of reclaiming.org, an activist branch of modern Pagan religion
    not a single fact given there what so ever .. just a pagan witch's thoughts ..

    Urbanomics: How the rich and poor benefit from government

    This site is a blog, author unknown . and shows a circle graph with no numbers as far as actual usage or dollars ..

    Raise taxes on the rich | Marketplace From American Public Media

    another site that says absolutely nothing .. but goes back to the ranting and raving of how the 80's was America's death ..

    If thats the best you can produce you have less than nothing .

    But just for the sake of fun .. lets post some facts .. lets us walmart use of our road ways

    Semi's average about 9 miles per gal (fact)
    Walmart has a fleet of semi's that number 7,200 (fact)
    each truck averages about 2000 miles per week (fact)
    federal tax on a gallon of diesel fuel is 24.4 cents (fact)

    now you can do the math .. I have already . and that will work out to just over 2 million dollars walmart pays the federal government to use the road ways . and another 2 million dollars they pay the states on fuel taxes.

    So besides all the other taxes paid, they pay an addition 4 million dollars to use our roads via the fuel taxes. The average person pays 225 dollars so walmart pays as much as 17,777 people to use there road ways. Next time you are out driving .. let me know when you count 17,000 cars before seeing a walmart truck on the road .

    Not sure about you .. . but to rational people .. it seems they are paying more then fair share for using the highways, in just fuel taxes alone.

    But hey maybe that Wiccan witch put a spell on you and told you her opinions were fact ..

  6. #276
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    Re: Do The Rich Need Saving?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Still trying to defend the tax cuts for the rich?

    You are trying to compare apples and oranges. Your point is irrelevant to the discussion of tax rates. GDP has gone up through history irregardless of tax rates, so naturally revenues will be higher due to that alone. Now, if you can prove that the revenues wouldn't have been even higher without the tax cuts, it would be relevant.
    laughs .. well the same can be said about your statement ... can you prove they would have been higher if they weren't cut ?? if you can your posts would be relevant ....

  7. #277
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    Re: Do The Rich Need Saving?

    Quote Originally Posted by Oberon View Post
    Tax revenues increased because Reagan raised Federal taxes at least 6 times, and then there were the huge capital gains from the wave of LBO's and mergers, i.e. Wall Street junk bond fever, and a real estate bubble. It had squat to with Reagan's tax cuts, and much more to do with Paul Volcker's Fed policies, which are worthy of a thread all by themselves
    Well damn now I'm confused .. . Catawba keep telling me that it was all those tax cuts for the rich that Reagan gave that caused all our troubles ... now you are saying that Reagan raised taxes ?? (psss I know he did but don't tell catawba)

  8. #278
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    Re: Do The Rich Need Saving?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Barbarian View Post
    laughs .. well the same can be said about your statement ... can you prove they would have been higher if they weren't cut ?? if you can your posts would be relevant ....

    "In fact, the last half-dozen years have shown us that we can't have both lower taxes and fatter government coffers. The Congressional Budget Office, the Treasury Department, the Joint Committee on Taxation, the White House’s Council of Economic Advisers and a former Bush administration economist all say that tax cuts lead to revenues that are lower than they otherwise would have been – even if they spur some economic growth. And federal revenues actually declined at the beginning of this decade before rebounding."

    http://www.factcheck.org/taxes/supply-side_spin.html

    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  9. #279
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    Re: Do The Rich Need Saving?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Barbarian View Post
    Good gawd you use some real winners to try and prove your point ..

    On Faith Panelists Blog: The rich benefit from society and should give back - Starhawk
    Starhawk is a prominent voice in modern Wiccan spirituality and cofounder of reclaiming.org, an activist branch of modern Pagan religion
    not a single fact given there what so ever .. just a pagan witch's thoughts ..

    Urbanomics: How the rich and poor benefit from government

    This site is a blog, author unknown …. and shows a circle graph with no numbers as far as actual usage or dollars ..

    Raise taxes on the rich | Marketplace From American Public Media

    another site that says absolutely nothing .. but goes back to the ranting and raving of how the 80's was America's death ..

    If thats the best you can produce you have less than nothing .

    But just for the sake of fun .. lets post some facts .. lets us walmart use of our road ways

    Semi's average about 9 miles per gal (fact)
    Walmart has a fleet of semi's that number 7,200 (fact)
    each truck averages about 2000 miles per week (fact)
    federal tax on a gallon of diesel fuel is 24.4 cents (fact)

    now you can do the math .. I have already …. and that will work out to just over 2 million dollars walmart pays the federal government to use the road ways …. and another 2 million dollars they pay the states on fuel taxes.

    So besides all the other taxes paid, they pay an addition 4 million dollars to use our roads via the fuel taxes. The average person pays 225 dollars … so walmart pays as much as 17,777 people to use there road ways. Next time you are out driving .. let me know when you count 17,000 cars before seeing a walmart truck on the road .

    Not sure about you .. . but to rational people .. it seems they are paying more then fair share for using the highways, in just fuel taxes alone.

    But hey maybe that Wiccan witch put a spell on you and told you her opinions were fact ..
    You missed the point. Those were just the first few sites in a search. Go back to corporate welfare. Go back to bailouts. Go back breaks. Then continue on to use of courts, benefiting from an educated work force, and continue on. And try to come up with a comparison that is in someway equal.

    Links already given:

    http://www.cato.org/pubs/handbook/hb108/hb108-33.pdf

    Corporate Welfare | OurFuture.org

    Distribution of wealth? A pittance for poor, Corporate Welfare should offend more | redblueamerica.com

    http://wweek.com/portland/article-17...out_taxes.html

    http://wweek.com/portland/article-17...out_taxes.html

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  10. #280
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    Re: Do The Rich Need Saving?

    This post is slightly off topic from the current discussion in this thread,but it is relevant and it's something I've been wondering. The more conservative posters have argued that it isn't right to tax the rich, because they earned it and the rich shouldn't have to give up their money. However the right-wing are also the group that likes to talk the most about patriotism and how much they love their country and honor the sacrifice of the men in uniform.

    My question is why can't we ask the rich to sacrifice some of their wealth for the good of the country they claim to love so much? The country needs more revenue and the working class doesn't have the means to provide so why don't the patriotic rich of America agree to have their taxes raised for the good of the country? This is a very emotional based argument I'll admit, I just find it strange that the group that talks the most about patriotism is unwilling to ask the rich to pay more for the good of the country they love. Perhaps Jefferson was right when he said "Merchants have no country. The mere spot they stand on does not constitute so strong an attachment as that from which they draw their gains."

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