View Poll Results: Do The Rich Need Saving?

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  • Yes

    7 10.00%
  • No

    59 84.29%
  • Not Sure

    0 0%
  • Other/explain

    4 5.71%
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Thread: Do The Rich Need Saving?

  1. #261
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    Re: Do The Rich Need Saving?

    Quote Originally Posted by Oberon View Post
    The top rate was always a red herring argument, since nobody ever paid it, and mostof the income of the top brackets was from capital gains and dividends, which got an automatic 50% deduction on the tax schedules. For example, on $100 in capital gains only $50 was counted as taxable, and that is after a ton of other deductions in the tax code that nobody else was rich enough to qualify for and even customized laws passed especially for a particular corporation. Anyone who has read the tax schedules would know this, and for those who don't just find them somewhere and see for yourself.
    It has already been documented a few pages back that the actual rate back then after deductions was about 50 - 60%. Still much, much higher than today.
    Last edited by Catawba; 07-28-11 at 01:15 AM.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  2. #262
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    Re: Do The Rich Need Saving?

    Quote Originally Posted by DemonMyst View Post
    Repubs spend more than dems.. Look it up.. How many repubs have left the next president budget surplus?? None.. How many dems?? At least one..

    Again your views are still flawed..
    In fact their beloved icon Ronald Regan tripled the national debt in his term from 1 trillion to 3 trillion. In fact he spent more than every president before him combined.

  3. #263
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    Re: Do The Rich Need Saving?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    why should ability to pay trump use? maybe if those who cannot "afford" more taxes had to pay more every time they voted for big spending dems they might figure out not to vote for those pimps
    Let's see your evidence the working class benefit from taxes more than the rich. You keep making that absurd claim without any evidence. Let's see it?

    It was the majority of GOP that voted us into Iraq and the tax cuts for the rich, which is the most wasteful part of our debt for the last decade. Perhaps if the rich were paying their fair share of the taxes they wouldn't be so quick to vote for wasteful spending that is killing our country!
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  4. #264
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    Re: Do The Rich Need Saving?

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Funny, I was thinking the same thing about your poor comparison. Go figure.
    Hey all you have to do is show me the numbers where the rich use more of what the government offers .. thats all .. I'll be waiting

  5. #265
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    Re: Do The Rich Need Saving?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    It has already been documented a few pages back that the actual rate back then after deductions was about 50 - 60%. Still much, much higher than today.
    That works out to an actual tax rate of 25% to 30%.

  6. #266
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    Re: Do The Rich Need Saving?

    Quote Originally Posted by Oberon View Post
    That works out to an actual tax rate of 25% to 30%.
    Nope, the actual tax rate was 90% for the top bracket and after deductions and loopholes, it came to an effective rate of about 50 - 60%.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  7. #267
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    Re: Do The Rich Need Saving?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Barbarian View Post
    Hey all you have to do is show me the numbers where the rich use more of what the government offers .. thats all .. I'll be waiting
    I believe I linked some earlier. We talked about corporate welfare, about who uses the courts and other services, and about an educated work force. We dicussed the bailouts, and the breaks. But here's some more:
    Middle class income has not risen in thirty years, while the speculators and the loan sharks who are responsible for this current crisis still get their inflated bonuses.
    How do the rich make their profits? Do they manufacture goods? Then they must ship them on the roads and rails that are built with public money. Did they invent Ebay or Facebook? Then they profit from the internet which was developed originally with government support. Do they hire workers? Then much of their workforce has been educated and trained in public schools, community colleges, universities that are publicly funded. All business and commerce depends on the common infrastructure. Those who benefit extraordinarily from the commons must contribute back their fair share. If they do not, they siphon wealth away from the rest of us. They are asking us to subsidize their luxuries while we pinch pennies and scrape the bottom of the pan.
    Some people might say that the rich deserve their golden hordes, that they earn their wealth by providing jobs. But subsidizing the wealthy at the expense of the rest of us does not create jobs--witness the current levels of unemployment! Moreover, it comes at the direct expense of the real, productive work of the world. Those who choose professions that involve caring for others, nurturing children, teaching, nursing, healing, farming, providing food, clothing and shelter surely deserve rewards for their labor. Now they are being asked to forego the pensions they counted upon for comfort in their old age, the health care they need to remain strong, the education that could allow their children to thrive, the homes they've scrimped and saved for, and to mortage their grandchildren's futures all so that the ultra-rich who profit from their work can avoid their share of our common social responsibilities.

    On Faith Panelists Blog: The rich benefit from society and should give back - Starhawk

    Urbanomics: How the rich and poor benefit from government

    Raise taxes on the rich | Marketplace From American Public Media

    Now anyone can do this google search thingie. Just follow the posts of the prof. But the point is, the rich get a bunch from the government. More than poor, and **** lot more than the middle class. I can find the worlds smallest violin for them if you want.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  8. #268
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    Re: Do The Rich Need Saving?

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    I believe I linked some earlier. We talked about corporate welfare, about who uses the courts and other services, and about an educated work force. We dicussed the bailouts, and the breaks. But here's some more:
    Middle class income has not risen in thirty years, while the speculators and the loan sharks who are responsible for this current crisis still get their inflated bonuses.
    How do the rich make their profits? Do they manufacture goods? Then they must ship them on the roads and rails that are built with public money. Did they invent Ebay or Facebook? Then they profit from the internet which was developed originally with government support. Do they hire workers? Then much of their workforce has been educated and trained in public schools, community colleges, universities that are publicly funded. All business and commerce depends on the common infrastructure. Those who benefit extraordinarily from the commons must contribute back their fair share. If they do not, they siphon wealth away from the rest of us. They are asking us to subsidize their luxuries while we pinch pennies and scrape the bottom of the pan.
    Some people might say that the rich deserve their golden hordes, that they earn their wealth by providing jobs. But subsidizing the wealthy at the expense of the rest of us does not create jobs--witness the current levels of unemployment! Moreover, it comes at the direct expense of the real, productive work of the world. Those who choose professions that involve caring for others, nurturing children, teaching, nursing, healing, farming, providing food, clothing and shelter surely deserve rewards for their labor. Now they are being asked to forego the pensions they counted upon for comfort in their old age, the health care they need to remain strong, the education that could allow their children to thrive, the homes they've scrimped and saved for, and to mortage their grandchildren's futures all so that the ultra-rich who profit from their work can avoid their share of our common social responsibilities.

    On Faith Panelists Blog: The rich benefit from society and should give back - Starhawk

    Urbanomics: How the rich and poor benefit from government

    Raise taxes on the rich | Marketplace From American Public Media

    Now anyone can do this google search thingie. Just follow the posts of the prof. But the point is, the rich get a bunch from the government. More than poor, and **** lot more than the middle class. I can find the worlds smallest violin for them if you want.
    Excellent work Boo! I knew that line about the rich benefiting least was a crock.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  9. #269
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    Re: Do The Rich Need Saving?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    It has already been documented a few pages back that the actual rate back then after deductions was about 50 - 60%. Still much, much higher than today.
    The Tax Foundation - Summary of Latest Federal Individual Income Tax Data
    Historical Federal Receipt and Outlay Summary
    here are two sites that maybe you should look at .. the first shows tax receipts collected by the government for each year .. look closely at the years before Reagan cut the top tax rate .. and the years following it … you will notice that the government took in more after the tax cuts .. then before the tax cuts .. .in fact by 1990 government revenue actually doubled ..

    Now the 2nd site .. shows that the top 5% bracket actually paid more in taxes in every year after the tax cuts given by Reagan ..

    So lets see … after tax cuts we increased government revenue … and increased what the top bracket was paying in taxes .. so what part of that is it that you don't agree with ??

  10. #270
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    Re: Do The Rich Need Saving?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Barbarian View Post
    The Tax Foundation - Summary of Latest Federal Individual Income Tax Data
    Historical Federal Receipt and Outlay Summary
    here are two sites that maybe you should look at .. the first shows tax receipts collected by the government for each year .. look closely at the years before Reagan cut the top tax rate .. and the years following it … you will notice that the government took in more after the tax cuts .. then before the tax cuts .. .in fact by 1990 government revenue actually doubled ..

    Now the 2nd site .. shows that the top 5% bracket actually paid more in taxes in every year after the tax cuts given by Reagan ..

    So lets see … after tax cuts we increased government revenue … and increased what the top bracket was paying in taxes .. so what part of that is it that you don't agree with ??
    Still trying to defend the tax cuts for the rich?

    You are trying to compare apples and oranges. Your point is irrelevant to the discussion of tax rates. GDP has gone up through history irregardless of tax rates, so naturally revenues will be higher due to that alone. Now, if you can prove that the revenues wouldn't have been even higher without the tax cuts, it would be relevant.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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