View Poll Results: Do The Rich Need Saving?

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  • Yes

    7 10.00%
  • No

    59 84.29%
  • Not Sure

    0 0%
  • Other/explain

    4 5.71%
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Thread: Do The Rich Need Saving?

  1. #151
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    Re: Do The Rich Need Saving?

    No hate involved, just a zillion or so first hand observations over a number of years.

    On the other hand, since the Reagan union busting years, the brie and chardonnay Democrats lost interest in supporting their traditional labor base, in direct proportion to the decline in union 'contributions' to their Party, and they now openly show their distaste for the entire demographic of blue collar workers, so the real wonder is the Party has any support at all from the working poor. One of the reasons for the 'Super Delegate Rule' passed in 1984 is to prevent ugly 'populist' surprises like McGovern and McCarthy from ever darkening the doors of the DNC and DLC ever again. Obama's 'Guns and God Clingers' crack was aimed at a lot of blue collar whites who otherwise voted Democratic in the past, except on issues dear to the Frat Brat types at the top of the Party.
    Last edited by Oberon; 07-23-11 at 01:45 AM.

  2. #152
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    Re: Do The Rich Need Saving?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    I don't hate either. I cannot stand those who pander to them. did it ever bother you that the richest politicians are often dems-the ones who claim they are trying to HELP the poor?
    Many read those type of responses as hate, as often they are beyond hyperbolic.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  3. #153
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    Re: Do The Rich Need Saving?

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain America View Post
    I totally understand the rich circling the wagons and calling in their bought and paid for politicians to do their bidding.

    What I can't understand is why these rednecks living in squalor trailor parks, or in there confederated flag draped trucks, keep voting for the people who continually represent the rich and don't give 2 ****s about them. Half of their paychecks probably have a treasury welfare stamp on them. If the GOP had their way these people would be sent off to work camps or starved. Doesn't add up.
    I would laugh but this is sad truth. Damn.
    ~Following My Own Flow~

  4. #154
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    Re: Do The Rich Need Saving?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kali View Post
    I would laugh but this is sad truth. Damn.
    JMO, but from my observations it seem like Democrats and Republicans are usually (again I am using the word usually as there can always be exceptions) one of the following:


    Republicans are: the wealthy and those that are not smart enough to realize the odds are stacked against them in a world of unequal opportunity

    Democrats are: people who disbelieve in Christianity and or who want to see less suffering in the world

    Does anyone else see this pattern as well?

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    Re: Do The Rich Need Saving?

    Yes, there is somewhat of a pattern like that, except that at a local level it varies a lot. I'm an activist at the local level, advocating things like Senior Citizens Centers and the like, and when I need to round up volunteers and support for those types of things the Democratic Party types are always 'too busy' or something, doing Big Important Stuff, but when I go around to the little 'Evil Fundie Right Wing Churches' I can always find people to volunteer for and turn out to vote for such projects, set up food banks, mow yards and doing repairs for shut ins being harassed by city Code enforcement Nazis, drivers, etc., so, I'm not much of a supporter of either Party; I don't know of any atheist organizations that set up and maintain soup kitchens, shelters, or anything at all of that nature, either, so I'm not much impressed with Xian H8ters any more than any other type of bigots.
    Last edited by Oberon; 07-23-11 at 02:30 AM.

  6. #156
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    Re: Do The Rich Need Saving?

    Quote Originally Posted by Oberon View Post
    Yes, there is somewhat of a pattern like that, except that at a local level it varies a lot. I'm an activist at the local level, advocating things like Senior Citizens Centers and the like, and when I need to round up volunteers and support for those types of things the Democratic Party types are always 'too busy' or something, doing Big Important Stuff, but when I go around to the little 'Evil Fundie Right Wing Churches' I can always find people to volunteer for and turn out to vote for such projects, set up food banks, mow yards and doing repairs for shut ins being harassed by city Code enforcement Nazis, drivers, etc., so, I'm not much of a supporter of either Party; I don't know of any atheist organizations that set up and maintain soup kitchens, shelters, or anything at all of that nature, either, so I'm not much impressed with Xian H8ters any more than any other type of bigots.
    That is interesting isn't it? I mean, church going right wingers (who, of the right wingers, seem to have the best intent in mind, even if they use fuzzy logic to come to erroneous conclusions such as anti-progressive tax opinions) seem so intent on not allowing the state or federal government to help the poor, but are all for helping the poor themselves. What's up with that?

    From some that I talk to, most church goers distrust the government and only see the corruption in it. Some protestant church mentalities are very separatist in nature, i.e. some don't even want their children marrying outside their own specific protestant sect. They essentially see everyone else as corrupted by the devil and in need of saving. This mentality could definitely lead to distrust of the government.

    Additionally, you can guarantee that these church goers will try to spread their message and save all the sinners while they are doing their charities. I don't know if this is a conscious altruism and an unconscious ego booster or what, but its the way they roll.

    As for left wingers, the one's I have met are either the poor, intelligent/educated poor, educated snobs or the wealthy who let themselves be rules by emotions rather than reason.

    Its hard to know where to fit in. Its interesting to try and figure out what makes each of the groups within each party tick though.

    I hope I am not offending anyone with these comments, if so let me know. Any other observations out there? I should probably start a new thread regarding this, lol! Aye?
    Last edited by MusicAdventurer; 07-23-11 at 02:59 AM.

  7. #157
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    Re: Do The Rich Need Saving?

    In my persoanl experience, I haven't seen much proselytizing in the projects I work on, unless of course saying 'may God bless you' throws you into apoplectic fits or something. It's not like these people are all from one denomination, they're just individuals glad to help out. Many of them help out because they're poor themselves and know what it's like, mainly, and especially know where they would be if they didn't have extended families to help out in hard times. They are overwhelmingly pretty genuine, imho.

    As for the 'fuzzy logic', it's kind of disingenuous to expect them to support organizations and the policies of organizations that actively demonize them constantly and despise them anyway for being working class and therefore easily dismissed as 'worthless' by bourgeois middle class types and of no importance.

    Ignorance is certainly an issue with many, but then it's a matter of degrees, and there isn't any huge gap in their level of ignorance and the ignorance of middle class and wealthy Democrats who think legalizing pot and gay marriage are the penultimate issues of the day and on which Civilization itself should be focused on, so I don't mind cutting them some slack on issues that are largely just abstractions and luxuries as far as they are concerned.

    And, they're not all that fond of Republicans, either, it's just that Republicans don't devote extraordinary amounts of effort at demeaning and spitting on them, frankly; many Democrats and PC Fashion Victims really need to get over themselves in any case, as many of their beliefs are just as strange if not stranger. Their Party's politicians always have that 'Deer Caught In Headlights' look when faced with questions that involve the real hardships the working poor and poor are faced with, they really have no clue what's going on and think, like their fellow neo-liberal Republicans, that the stock market really is a measure of how well the economy is doing, and refuse to admit there is an ongoing depression; it suits them now that their fair haired Boy is in the White House to paint over the realities and serious hardships under their administration, after all. Passing yet another string of unfunded mandates gets stale as a vote wining tactic after a number of years.

    How long can you promote 'education' as the key when the vast majority of jobs created in the last 20 years aren't even full time ones that require more than a 8th grade education, for instance? Most people know that talking point is a load of bull****.

    I also don't see hardly any of those 'redneck Confederate Waving' types at churches; they prefer beer joints and the like over church going. Most of them are atheists, too.
    Last edited by Oberon; 07-23-11 at 03:25 AM.

  8. #158
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    Re: Do The Rich Need Saving?

    I hope I am not offending anyone with these comments, if so let me know. Any other observations out there? I should probably start a new thread regarding this, lol! Aye?
    Go ahead and be offensive; some people are just born 'Offended', and many direly need to be offended, and at every opportunity.

  9. #159
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    Re: Do The Rich Need Saving?

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Flip side of the same coin of those who hate teachers and workers I suspect. Just saying. . . .
    Yup. What would he think we'd meet arrogance and perceived superiority with? "Yassah, Massah Dude!!"?

  10. #160
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    Re: Do The Rich Need Saving?

    Quote Originally Posted by Oberon View Post
    In my persoanl experience, I haven't seen much proselytizing in the projects I work on, unless of course saying 'may God bless you' throws you into apoplectic fits or something. It's not like these people are all from one denomination, they're just individuals glad to help out. Many of them help out because they're poor themselves and know what it's like, mainly, and especially know where they would be if they didn't have extended families to help out in hard times. They are overwhelmingly pretty genuine, imho.

    As for the 'fuzzy logic', it's kind of disingenuous to expect them to support organizations and the policies of organizations that actively demonize them constantly and despise them anyway for being working class and therefore easily dismissed as 'worthless' by bourgeois middle class types and of no importance.

    Ignorance is certainly an issue with many, but then it's a matter of degrees, and there isn't any huge gap in their level of ignorance and the ignorance of middle class and wealthy Democrats who think legalizing pot and gay marriage are the penultimate issues of the day and on which Civilization itself should be focused on, so I don't mind cutting them some slack on issues that are largely just abstractions and luxuries as far as they are concerned.

    And, they're not all that fond of Republicans, either, it's just that Republicans don't devote extraordinary amounts of effort at demeaning and spitting on them, frankly; many Democrats and PC Fashion Victims really need to get over themselves in any case, as many of their beliefs are just as strange if not stranger. Their Party's politicians always have that 'Deer Caught In Headlights' look when faced with questions that involve the real hardships the working poor and poor are faced with, they really have no clue what's going on and think, like their fellow neo-liberal Republicans, that the stock market really is a measure of how well the economy is doing, and refuse to admit there is an ongoing depression; it suits them now that their fair haired Boy is in the White House to paint over the realities and serious hardships under their administration, after all. Passing yet another string of unfunded mandates gets stale as a vote wining tactic after a number of years.

    How long can you promote 'education' as the key when the vast majority of jobs created in the last 20 years aren't even full time ones that require more than a 8th grade education, for instance? Most people know that talking point is a load of bull****.

    I also don't see hardly any of those 'redneck Confederate Waving' types at churches; they prefer beer joints and the like over church going. Most of them are atheists, too.
    I agree with most of what you said, not too familiar with some of the other points though. One thing that I do not want to bash (even if the majority of the ones who support it, do so for luxury reasons), is the legalization of growing hemp in the U.S. - this would be a great boost to the economy - btw, hemp is not taken from a marijuana plant, they are closely related plants, but not the same thing.

    Even marijuana, like alcohol, could be a great cash crop (enhancing the economy), it would reduce money spent on fighting the loosing battle against it and free up time for the law to focus on other more important issues, and it would free up a lot of jail cells thus putting less burden on the economy and the list goes on. Hemp and its cousin Marijuana, could bring us out of this recession - with likely little effect as the percent of people using marijuana is sky high already. jmo ... but it is many other's as well

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