View Poll Results: Do The Rich Need Saving?

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  • Yes

    7 10.00%
  • No

    59 84.29%
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    4 5.71%
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Thread: Do The Rich Need Saving?

  1. #121
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    Re: Do The Rich Need Saving?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    Perhaps those who have less should get some guts and ambition to get rich.
    No thread is ever complete without a bit of delusion and hackery.

  2. #122
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    Re: Do The Rich Need Saving?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    Perhaps those who have less should get some guts and ambition to get rich.
    Not everyone can become rich though. I forget the stat, but there was a study done some time ago in which a survey showed that something like 8 or so % of the population thought they were in the top 1% of the income bracket and another 15 or so % thought they'd be in the top 1% within their life time. But only 1% of those earning income can be in the top 1% of the income bracket. Furthermore, with the withering of the middle class thanks to the mixing of State and Corporation, fewer and fewer people can get rich. A large, healthy middle class is necessary for economic mobility. It's not closed off yet, some people can and perhaps will become rich. But it's becoming less and less common. With the closure of economic mobility and the appearance of the new aristocracy, we're going to see less (not more) economic mobility. It's not a zero sum game, but not everyone can win either.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

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  3. #123
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    Re: Do The Rich Need Saving?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gipper View Post
    And the tax shelters are bad? I'm sorry, but I'm not about to try and skewer the "rich" anymore when the top 1% of America in terms of wealth pay more in taxes than the bottom 95%. America has the largest overall tax rate in the modern world. So, while the rich may not need "saving", they don't need a bunch of Robin Hoods running around, trying to act like they know how to spend their money better than they do.
    Where are you getting your information that America has the largest overall tax burden.

    According to the OECD, we have the third lowest tax to GDP ratio.
    List of countries by tax revenue as percentage of GDP - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Even according to the Heritage Foundation (a conservative think tank), our tax to GDP ratio is much lower than most of our developed world counterparts at 26.9% (including state and local taxes). Compared to the UK (39%), Canada (32.2%), Germany (40.6%), and France (46.1%) we have a very low tax burden.

    In terms of American history, our tax burden right now is incredibly low. This belief that American taxes right now are somehow ridiculously high doesn't pan out when applied to facts.

  4. #124
    warrior of the wetlands
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    Re: Do The Rich Need Saving?

    Quote Originally Posted by FilmFestGuy View Post
    Where are you getting your information that America has the largest overall tax burden.

    According to the OECD, we have the third lowest tax to GDP ratio.
    List of countries by tax revenue as percentage of GDP - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Even according to the Heritage Foundation (a conservative think tank), our tax to GDP ratio is much lower than most of our developed world counterparts at 26.9% (including state and local taxes). Compared to the UK (39%), Canada (32.2%), Germany (40.6%), and France (46.1%) we have a very low tax burden.

    In terms of American history, our tax burden right now is incredibly low. This belief that American taxes right now are somehow ridiculously high doesn't pan out when applied to facts.

    and yet the left thinks the only people who should have their tax burden increased is the one group that actually pays more than its fair share



  5. #125
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    Re: Do The Rich Need Saving?

    I don't worry or even ponder over such things. The rich are rich for three reasons. They either inherited family money, or they worked their tails off to get that way and made some very good investments along the way. Or they invested in a lottery ticket where they came out mega winners. When they get hit with exhorbitent taxes, rest assured, they find all sorts of loopholes to make the pain easier. They are well versed in manuevering the tax system to aid them in their endeavors to remain wealthy. They have the best tax attorneys at their beck and call. So what's to worry about?

  6. #126
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    Re: Do The Rich Need Saving?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paschendale View Post
    I never understood this mentality that taxes are a punishment.
    Taxes are just paying the upkeep on the country. That's it.
    Come on. Everything else I pay upkeep on I have a CHOICE in the matter, a direct one, and it can be modified almost on a whim.
    If I don't like the upkeep cost of my lawn, I can do it myself, or get an apartment or a garden home. If I don't like the upkeep of my fish tank, I can sell it.

    if I try to democratically push government to reduce some of the thigns I do NOT want to keep paying upkeep on, it's difficult, time consuming, not up to me, etc., etc.

    THEN you'll get some liberal on this forum...for example, telling me I have no reason to examine whether or not I want to pay government upkeep in the FIRST PLACE!! Even though every other form of upkeep, I both examine and control (to a large degree!)

    God damn!!!!!!!!

    And furthermore, one has to ask, how much did you pay in taxes? Can you comprehend that paying enormous sums of earned money to provide upkeep for thigns you really don't need, or want, or feel are justified, is not a good thing?

    And that if you busted ass for a long time, and you saw your taxes go up, and up and, up, the more you work the more you payed, and by the end you're paying more in taxes per year than you made in salary the first 5 years, you might start to understand why it's punishment. Then to hear the justifications for it, and see that 47% pay effectively no federal taxes, then the class warfare....

    I do a lot of things that I feel I have to, doesn't mean I sugar coat it and deny it's punishment. I hate going to the doctor, it's punishment to me, but I still value it. Paying taxes is a burden, and it's by in large involuntary. You can argue about the rest, but not about that.
    Last edited by Mach; 07-22-11 at 07:10 PM.

  7. #127
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    Re: Do The Rich Need Saving?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mach View Post
    Come on. Everything else I pay upkeep on I have a CHOICE in the matter, a direct one, and it can be modified almost on a whim.
    If I don't like the upkeep cost of my lawn, I can do it myself, or get an apartment or a garden home. If I don't like the upkeep of my fish tank, I can sell it.

    if I try to democratically push government to reduce some of the thigns I do NOT want to keep paying upkeep on, it's difficult, time consuming, not up to me, etc., etc.

    THEN you'll get some liberal on this forum...for example, telling me I have no reason to examine whether or not I want to pay government upkeep in the FIRST PLACE!! Even though every other form of upkeep, I both examine and control (to a large degree!)

    God damn!!!!!!!!

    And furthermore, one has to ask, how much did you pay in taxes? Can you comprehend that paying enormous sums of earned money to provide upkeep for thigns you really don't need, or want, or feel are justified, is not a good thing?

    And that if you busted ass for a long time, and you saw your taxes go up, and up and, up, the more you work the more you payed, and by the end you're paying more in taxes per year than you made in salary the first 5 years, you might start to understand why it's punishment. Then to hear the justifications for it, and see that 47% pay effectively no federal taxes, then the class warfare....

    I do a lot of things that I feel I have to, doesn't mean I sugar coat it and deny it's punishment. I hate going to the doctor, it's punishment to me, but I still value it. Paying taxes is a burden, and it's by in large involuntary. You can argue about the rest, but not about that.
    True: what benefits do I get from the government for paying a few hundred K in FIT a year that those who pay none don't get?



  8. #128
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    Re: Do The Rich Need Saving?

    Quote Originally Posted by Binky View Post
    I don't worry or even ponder over such things. The rich are rich for three reasons. They either inherited family money, or they worked their tails off to get that way and made some very good investments along the way. Or they invested in a lottery ticket where they came out mega winners. When they get hit with exhorbitent taxes, rest assured, they find all sorts of loopholes to make the pain easier. They are well versed in manuevering the tax system to aid them in their endeavors to remain wealthy. They have the best tax attorneys at their beck and call. So what's to worry about?
    That's propoganda, most people pay their taxes, and there are not that many loopholes that are that large, to make your post realistic. Companies who pay little nealry always either posted a loss to offset it (they lost money!! something workers aren't normally familiar with because they have salaries that are always 0 or higher!), or they paid it in another country where the work was done.

    For individuals, they don't get out of it with loopholes either. Those with retirement incomes or who have large (enough) amounts of wealth, might invest it in the economy and get a return on that investment if it's left for over a year, and that's taxed at a lower rate. But that doesn't take rich tax attorneys, everyone with a 401K or IRA, etc., does this, and nearly all Americans participate in this themselves at retirement either way!
    Last edited by Mach; 07-22-11 at 07:17 PM.

  9. #129
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    Re: Do The Rich Need Saving?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    True: what benefits do I get from the government for paying a few hundred K in FIT a year that those who pay none don't get?
    It's one thing to tell me government should provide X at cost Y for reason Z.
    It's a whole different craziness to then tell me "Mach, your burden of paying all those taxes for things you may not agree with is not punishment to you....according to me".

  10. #130
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    Re: Do The Rich Need Saving?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    True: what benefits do I get from the government for paying a few hundred K in FIT a year that those who pay none don't get?
    You get the luxury of being allowed to be wealthy, to be allowed to hoard and spend more money (much more) than you need to in order to live. Whether or not you take advantage of this allowance from the government is your choice. Think of it this way ... the government could be (in all fairness) demanding much more from the wealthy, but they do not. Therefore, the wealthy get to keep the majority of the beyond needed income they accumulate (hoard). Therefore the government allows you much more benefits than those who pay no taxes receive.

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