View Poll Results: Should a multi-billionaire settle for 2 jets instead of 3, 7 homes instead of 10 etc?

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  • Yes (if it means serving the greater good)

    12 24.49%
  • No (no one has the right to decide how much wealth is too much)

    37 75.51%
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Thread: Billionaires: free to romp or responsible to fellow citizens?

  1. #81
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    Re: Billionaires: free to romp or responsible to fellow citizens?

    Quote Originally Posted by MusicAdventurer View Post
    Why do you think a minimum wage exists (even if its too low)?
    Murderers exist, does that make them magically legitimate? If no, then you lose that tangent rebuttal. If yes, then we're not communicating.
    If you want to argue min wage, there is a thread on that topic, or make a new thread. You're OP is about forcefully taking money from billionaires, presumably beacuse you "feel like it".

    There are lots of potentially good reasons to tax certain billionaires more. "Just because" isn't one of them.
    Last edited by Mach; 07-20-11 at 04:15 PM.

  2. #82
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    Re: Billionaires: free to romp or responsible to fellow citizens?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mach View Post
    It's like using a shotgun to clean your fingernails. It works sometimes, usually by accident, but it's incredibly dangerous, dumb, and usually results in the destruction of everything you were trying to fix.
    Well, no... it's more like telling your kids that it's wrong to eat chocolate while you down your 4th Snickers bar.
    Last edited by PzKfW IVe; 07-20-11 at 04:13 PM.

  3. #83
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    Re: Billionaires: free to romp or responsible to fellow citizens?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mach View Post
    It also requires that you not persecute the minority with a majority. Which is what you proposed.
    Persecute? i.e. Subject (someone) to hostility and ill-treatment Google

    When did I propose that we should persecute anybody?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mach View Post
    There's that pesky freedom term again. How about we define freedom as NOT freedom, as liberals often do, then we can ignore that right?

    You do realize that ethics and morality are not tested in ideal circumstances, they are tested in the extreme situation. You are not a free nation if you only observe freedom when you feel like it, only for people you personally think are OK. Sure, the poor fisherman should be free, poor guy right? What about the billionaire fat cat.....? When you accept that you must treat them with the same fairness, you might grow a little inside. This is no different than the teachings of Love Your Enemy, or simply recognizing that individual freedom is a fundamental building block of...you know, good.
    Freedom is a pesky word isn't it? You see, when there is government, certain freedoms are (by definition) removed - anything else would be an absence of government (aka anarchy) which is a myth and doesn't exist. Democracy allows people to stand up for the rights they believe in so that government can protect those rights ... this of course comes at the cost of freedom as every time you tell someone "you can't kill", for example, you are stripping that person's freedom to act in the way they choose, while at the same time protecting others rights to live their lives with a lower chance of being murdered ... do you see what I am getting at? It all comes down to what rights you want to protect. Make sense?

  4. #84
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    Re: Billionaires: free to romp or responsible to fellow citizens?

    Quote Originally Posted by PzKfW IVe View Post
    Well, no... it's more like telling your kids that it's wrong to eat chocolate while you down your 4th Snickers bar.
    Let's disagree then!
    using government to attempt to solve all problems = shotgun analogy
    saying money is bad as you take their money = chocolate bar analogy

  5. #85
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    Re: Billionaires: free to romp or responsible to fellow citizens?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mach View Post
    Murderers exist, does that make them magically legitimate? If no, then you lose that tangent rebuttal. If yes, then we're not communicating.
    If you want to argue min wage, there is a thread on that topic, or make a new thread. You're OP is about forcefully taking money from billionaires, presumably beacuse you "feel like it".

    There are lots of potentially good reasons to tax certain billionaires more. "Just because" isn't one of them.
    You of course know what point I was getting at and simply because you do not agree with minimum wage does not prove your point. Do you agree that people should not murder? If so, who is going to make sure it doesn't happen? What about the individuals freedom to do as he/she chooses (e.g. killing someone)?

    My OP was not about "forcefully taking money from billionaires, presumably beacuse you feel like it" ... perhaps you should give it another read

    I suggest you read up on some political science literature .. in can help a lot .. just trying to help
    Last edited by MusicAdventurer; 07-20-11 at 04:20 PM.

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    Re: Billionaires: free to romp or responsible to fellow citizens?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mach View Post
    Let's disagree then!
    using government to attempt to solve all problems = shotgun analogy
    saying money is bad as you take their money = chocolate bar analogy
    I can agree to that!

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    Re: Billionaires: free to romp or responsible to fellow citizens?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mach View Post
    I understand you're new to these particular forums, so here's the scoop. Semantic quibbles about "pure", "true", "absolute", belong in the philosophy forum. If you keep raising them here, despite being corrected, it makes you look...<insert whatever you think is appropriate here>.
    OK, I'll insert ... extremely intelligent

    Quote Originally Posted by Mach View Post
    the U.S. is based on market principles
    Good now we are getting somewhere

    Good job at avoiding responding to my post regarding how one stays consistent within democratic philosophy ... well done *claps*
    Last edited by MusicAdventurer; 07-20-11 at 04:32 PM.

  8. #88
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    Re: Billionaires: free to romp or responsible to fellow citizens?

    It would a terrible oppression of personal freedom to put a wealth cap on people. The government has absolutely no right to cap how much someone can make and determine how much wealth is too much wealth.
    When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. -Socrates
    Tired of elections being between the lesser of two evils.

  9. #89
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    Re: Billionaires: free to romp or responsible to fellow citizens?

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    It would a terrible oppression of personal freedom to put a wealth cap on people. The government has absolutely no right to cap how much someone can make and determine how much wealth is too much wealth.
    I agree .. however, if progressive taxes without loopholes means that some ridiculously wealthy have to settle for one or two less homes or own a smaller private jet .. I won't complain

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    Re: Billionaires: free to romp or responsible to fellow citizens?

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    It would a terrible oppression of personal freedom to put a wealth cap on people. The government has absolutely no right to cap how much someone can make and determine how much wealth is too much wealth.
    Greed = having more than you "need"
    Need = what a liberal thinks you should be allowed to have.

    Of course, if you try to make a similar imposition on a liberal - that is, limit -their- rights according to -your- version of morality - they will have nothing of it.

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