View Poll Results: Should a multi-billionaire settle for 2 jets instead of 3, 7 homes instead of 10 etc?

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  • Yes (if it means serving the greater good)

    12 24.49%
  • No (no one has the right to decide how much wealth is too much)

    37 75.51%
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Thread: Billionaires: free to romp or responsible to fellow citizens?

  1. #161
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    Re: Billionaires: free to romp or responsible to fellow citizens?

    Quote Originally Posted by LesGovt View Post
    The profit is a necessity. It is often not the motivator either to start or to continue. We may be saying the same thing, but I believe strongly in the motivation part of it. Great products most often do not come from the concept of being motivated by profit. It comes from being motivated to offer make something new or better.
    If the people that came up with these great ideas and then marketed them to the public donated away the money they made from said ideas, you'd stand on more solid ground. I'm reasonably sure that Jobs, Gates, et al, didn't establish their companies as a means to bestow upon the world the proginy of their brilliance.

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    Re: Billionaires: free to romp or responsible to fellow citizens?

    Quote Originally Posted by PzKfW IVe View Post
    If the people that came up with these great ideas and then marketed them to the public donated away the money they made from said ideas, you'd stand on more solid ground. I'm reasonably sure that Jobs, Gates, et al, didn't establish their companies as a means to bestow upon the world the proginy of their brilliance.
    Wow! I think they did. May I suggest a business-related book to you, "In Search of Excellence." The author is Tom Peters. He had a follow-up to that book called, "A Passion for Excellence." Both are great reads and offer great explanations why company A has phenomenal success, when company B fails. The company that succeeds always has its eyes on the product or services and keeping it excellent. The company that fails watches the profit and then the loss numbers.

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    Re: Billionaires: free to romp or responsible to fellow citizens?

    Quote Originally Posted by LesGovt View Post
    Wow! I think they did. May I suggest a business-related book to you, "In Search of Excellence." The author is Tom Peters. He had a follow-up to that book called, "A Passion for Excellence." Both are great reads and offer great explanations why company A has phenomenal success, when company B fails. The company that succeeds always has its eyes on the product or services and keeping it excellent. The company that fails watches the profit and then the loss numbers.
    And, why would they have to give away their money? Their passion is still the product or service and the money is a reward for their passion. It's not what motivates them, it's the result of the motivation.

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    Re: Billionaires: free to romp or responsible to fellow citizens?

    Quote Originally Posted by LesGovt View Post
    And, why would they have to give away their money? Their passion is still the product or service and the money is a reward for their passion. It's not what motivates them, it's the result of the motivation.
    Nah. They do it to make money so they can live the life they want.

  5. #165
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    Re: Billionaires: free to romp or responsible to fellow citizens?

    Quote Originally Posted by PzKfW IVe View Post
    Nah. They do it to make money so they can live the life they want.
    You may have that opinion. It's all yours free of charge.

  6. #166
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    Re: Billionaires: free to romp or responsible to fellow citizens?

    Quote Originally Posted by evanescence View Post
    Another generalization. I think most people here realize that corporations exist to profit. That's fairly obvious.
    yet we have so many that are ignorant of that fact



  7. #167
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    Re: Billionaires: free to romp or responsible to fellow citizens?

    Quote Originally Posted by LesGovt View Post
    Actually, I was not trying to insult; although, I see why you would think so. It was more of just how I observe you. I apologize.

    I am the first Y or N/then you
    1.)Do you believe that vouchers to pay for k-12 education would provide for more competition if it included public, charter, private and parochial schools? Y/Y
    2.) Is competition a good thing? Y/Y
    3.) Do you support the concept of "gay marriages?" N/Y
    4.) We should privatize SS - Y/Depends - why do you think this is a good idea? What safeguards would be in place?
    5.) We should stop all 3rd payers (companies and govt) for healthcare insurance - Y/If you mean stopping healthcare for the poor, No. Otherwise, please explain what you mean.
    6.) Banning lightbulbs is not free enterprise and is not a good idea - Y/Depends on why said light-bulbs are being banned
    7.) The Bush tax cuts were taxes for the wealthy - N/Partially true
    8.) We should close down the Dept of Education - Y/Depends .. why do you think this would benefit .. how would its services be replaced?
    9.) Abortion is morally wrong - Y/This depends on the situation of the abortion
    10.) It is proven that there is global warming and that it is man-made - N/Nothings is ever proven .. however, there is evidence that global warming occurs natural and that our contributions are speeding the process up
    11.) Support President Obama's healthcare plan - N/Partially - I believe all people need healthcare, however, I believe it should be privatized to the extent possible.
    12.) If the debt ceiling is not lifted, it will be the fault of the GOP - N/No, It will be both parties fault
    13.) Drilling for oil and gas should be allowed in many more places - Y/Yes, temporarily and only if there is a plan to begin using more cost effective fuels
    14.) There are far too many Federal regulations - Y/Y (yet we may disagree as to which ones are unnecessary)
    15.) If we had no taxes on companies, we would not have an unemployment problem - Y/N
    16.) The tax code should be gutted and replaced with a flat tax - Y/N - the current progressive tax system is good, but the loopholes for the wealthy need to be cut
    17.) The tax code should be gutted and replaced with a Natl Sales Tax - N/N

    So the results thus far are: on 6/17 (35%) we agree, on 3/17 (18%) we disagree and on 8/17 (47%) our position relative to the other is uncertain. Therefore it can be said as of now, that we agree on twice as many things than we disagree on.

    Any more questions or clarifications?

  8. #168
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    Re: Billionaires: free to romp or responsible to fellow citizens?

    Quote Originally Posted by MusicAdventurer View Post
    1.)Do you believe that vouchers to pay for k-12 education would provide for more competition if it included public, charter, private and parochial schools? Y/Y
    2.) Is competition a good thing? Y/Y
    3.) Do you support the concept of "gay marriages?" N/Y
    4.) We should privatize SS - Y/Depends - why do you think this is a good idea? What safeguards would be in place?
    5.) We should stop all 3rd payers (companies and govt) for healthcare insurance - Y/If you mean stopping healthcare for the poor, No. Otherwise, please explain what you mean.
    6.) Banning lightbulbs is not free enterprise and is not a good idea - Y/Depends on why said light-bulbs are being banned
    7.) The Bush tax cuts were taxes for the wealthy - N/Partially true
    8.) We should close down the Dept of Education - Y/Depends .. why do you think this would benefit .. how would its services be replaced?
    9.) Abortion is morally wrong - Y/This depends on the situation of the abortion
    10.) It is proven that there is global warming and that it is man-made - N/Nothings is ever proven .. however, there is evidence that global warming occurs natural and that our contributions are speeding the process up
    11.) Support President Obama's healthcare plan - N/Partially - I believe all people need healthcare, however, I believe it should be privatized to the extent possible.
    12.) If the debt ceiling is not lifted, it will be the fault of the GOP - N/No, It will be both parties fault
    13.) Drilling for oil and gas should be allowed in many more places - Y/Yes, temporarily and only if there is a plan to begin using more cost effective fuels
    14.) There are far too many Federal regulations - Y/Y (yet we may disagree as to which ones are unnecessary)
    15.) If we had no taxes on companies, we would not have an unemployment problem - Y/N
    16.) The tax code should be gutted and replaced with a flat tax - Y/N - the current progressive tax system is good, but the loopholes for the wealthy need to be cut
    17.) The tax code should be gutted and replaced with a Natl Sales Tax - N/N

    So the results thus far are: on 6/17 (35%) we agree, on 3/17 (18%) we disagree and on 8/17 (47%) our position relative to the other is uncertain. Therefore it can be said as of now, that we agree on twice as many things than we disagree on.

    Any more questions or clarifications?
    Not sure that we agree on twice a many things, but we can probe thes a little deeper. Let's go through the ones that are uncertain:

    4.) We should privatize SS - Y/Depends - why do you think this is a good idea? What safeguards would be in place?

    Safeguards would be that only certain types of financial instruments could be used. They would include, Treasury Bills, Certificates of Deposits, and Mutual Funds. If mutual funds, they need to slide into no less than 3 categories of risk and be with no less than 3 different firms. It would not be mandatory and those who want to stay in the current program could and those opting out pay 1% of their wages for the people staying in. Yes or No?

    5.) We should stop all 3rd payers (companies and govt) for healthcare insurance - Y/If you mean stopping healthcare for the poor, No. Otherwise, please explain what you mean.

    Medicaid would be moved to the States and each State would decide on how to manage and fund the program. Other individuals would purchase insurance and not companies or government. The consumer is the one who is most concerned about themselves. A Senator in NY or CA does not know what a person in the Ozarks wants or needs. The State would also take over Medicare and should provide seniors with vouchers to purchase insurance and the amount of the vouchers should be based on income.

    6.) Banning lightbulbs is not free enterprise and is not a good idea - Y/Depends on why said light-bulbs are being banned

    The reason given is energy efficiency. Yes or No?

    7.) The Bush tax cuts were taxes for the wealthy - N/Partially true

    I think we can call this one an agreement if you agree that most went to those who are not "wealthy."

    8.) We should close down the Dept of Education - Y/Depends .. why do you think this would benefit .. how would its services be replaced?

    It would be up to the individual States to handle as they thought best. I believe that 50 ideas are better than 1. Secondly, per the Constitution, education belongs to the States. Yes or No?

    9.) Abortion is morally wrong - Y/This depends on the situation of the abortion

    I believe it is immoral unless the unborn has to be taken to save the life of the mother. While I personally do not support abortion for rape or incest, I would consider compromise on that, but nothing else. Yes or No?

    10.) It is proven that there is global warming and that it is man-made - N/Nothings is ever proven .. however, there is evidence that global warming occurs natural and that our contributions are speeding the process up

    I think this one could have been answered thusly: Y/N

    11.) Support President Obama's healthcare plan - N/Partially - I believe all people need healthcare, however, I believe it should be privatized to the extent possible.

    Okay, now I need to ask you what you mean.

    14.) There are far too many Federal regulations - Y/Y (yet we may disagree as to which ones are unnecessary)

    We might disagree, but at least we both agree that there are far too many Federal regulations. Any thoughts on where you think we might disagree?

    15.) If we had no taxes on companies, we would not have an unemployment problem - Y/N

    We differ on this one, so it is settled, but my curiosity is getting me here. Why do you think we would have an unemployment problem if business paid no taxes?

    Let's see if you can decide on these or need additional info or you can turn the question so it fits you better.

  9. #169
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    Re: Billionaires: free to romp or responsible to fellow citizens?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    yet we have so many that are ignorant of that fact
    I have no problem with businesses making a profit. I do, however, resent everyone not paying their fair share as a percentage of their income. I believe that a flat tax for all brackets of income, including investment income, would really help this country.
    “In politics, stupidity is not a handicap.” -Napoleon

  10. #170
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    Re: Billionaires: free to romp or responsible to fellow citizens?

    Quote Originally Posted by evanescence View Post
    I have no problem with businesses making a profit. I do, however, resent everyone not paying their fair share as a percentage of their income. I believe that a flat tax for all brackets of income, including investment income, would really help this country.
    ah from each according to their ability. those in the 350k to 5million range pay the highest percentage of federal income taxes

    The Very Rich Are Different–They Pay A Lower Tax Rate - Janet Novack - Taxing Matters - Forbes

    Taxpayers earning $1 million to $5 million, who get more of their income from salary and other “ordinary” income taxed at a top 35% rate, paid an effective tax rate of 24%

    that's the highest percentage of any group. the uber rich pay lower because few have a high percentage of salary income. anyone less than the top 1% (ie under about 375K) pay lower percentage rates of federal income taxes. these figures don't include the surcharge on the rich-the death tax which is one of the reasons why the top one percent have the highest total combined federal tax rate which is around 30% according to a post Oldreliable67 (one of the most objective posters on economic issues)



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