View Poll Results: Who Do You Trust To Reduce the Deficit and Solve the Debt Crises?

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  • Both Parties Seem Trustworthy

    0 0%
  • I Trust the Democrats

    16 13.91%
  • I Trust the Republicans

    49 42.61%
  • Neither Party can be Trusted

    50 43.48%
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Thread: Who do you trust to control the Deficit and solve our Debt Crises?

  1. #71
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    Re: Who do you trust to control the Deficit and solve our Debt Crises?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    not maintaining surge levels in Afghanistan for 10 years is not a "spending cut".
    I'm not sure how (if at all) the CBO tries to measure the costs of wars. It's difficult because presidents have a tendency to suddenly change their minds when it's time to act. I would agree that the surge in Afghanistan was (at least in theory) a short-term measure that should be discontinued anyway. But in practice, it may turn out to be more than that, as putting more troops into Afghanistan reduces the likelihood that we'll withdraw them soon. So I dunno, I can see some justification for including that as a spending cut if it's eliminated. It just depends how you measure the baseline spending.

    But really we should eliminate 100% of the spending for the war in Afghanistan, so it's a moot point.

    neither is reductions in interest payments resulting from increased taxes.
    I strongly disagree with this. Interest payments are absolutely a component of our long-term budgetary problems. Reducing the long-term deficit will reduce our interest payments, and therefore reduce spending in the long term. This is one of the reasons why I think it's so dangerous for us to have a debt ceiling in the first place...if the opposition (either next week or in a future debt ceiling debate) pushes it to the brink and is then unable to walk it back and make a deal to raise it, it will negatively impact our credit rating. A 1% increase in our interest rate would lead to an extra trillion dollars in interest payments (and therefore in government spending).

    Frankly I don't see how anyone could see it any other way. Why would reductions in interest payments from borrowing less not be a legitimate spending cut?

    Mutterings about "seeking efficiencies" does not count as a "spending cut", no matter what number you put on it.
    It depends what those efficiencies are, how important they are to the overall budget, and whether or not they're binding. So in my opinion the ACA would count as spending reductions from improving efficiency, whereas eliminating the occasional poster-child pork project or agriculture subsidy does not.
    Last edited by Kandahar; 07-23-11 at 06:46 PM.
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  2. #72
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    Re: Who do you trust to control the Deficit and solve our Debt Crises?

    Because they are only the ones mature and responsible enough to correct the wrong course where this nation is heading. This happens every time after the Dems. leave office, they have to put everything back in order.

  3. #73
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    Re: Who do you trust to control the Deficit and solve our Debt Crises?

    I found this infographic today in the New York Times...it fits this thread pretty well:


    Bush's policies increased the deficit by $5.07 trillion. Obama's policies have increased it by $1.44 trillion. And lest anyone think this is simply because Bush had more time to do his damage, these figures include Obama's costs projected out over an equal time frame.

    And if you take out the specific items that are directly attributable to the recession and therefore short-term, Obama has barely increased the deficit at all: The only other items on his deficit list are non-defense discretionary spending ($278 billion), health care reform ($152 billion), and defense (savings of $126 billion)...for a total of $304 billion. And even THAT may be an exaggeration, since one of the goals of health care reform is to REDUCE the deficit in the long-term, and the CBO indicated that it will do just that.

    Obama has not been a profligate spender...certainly FAR less than his predecessor was.
    Last edited by Kandahar; 07-25-11 at 02:43 AM.
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    Re: Who do you trust to control the Deficit and solve our Debt Crises?

    How could you morons trust republicans with this? They cant even agree with themselves. Kiss all your retirement benefits goodbye if they ever get power again. America is doomed if people are this stupid.


    I swear to god I will piss on the flag and take a 1 way ticket to canada if a republican gets elected president anytime soon do you guys even watch the news? I mean real newd, not fox. The gop is insane, even REAL republicans are saying this. Your more trustworthy of the people who put us in ythis mess in the first place? Your all ****ing stupid. God save america.
    Last edited by SypherAL; 07-28-11 at 02:40 PM.

  5. #75
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    Re: Who do you trust to control the Deficit and solve our Debt Crises?

    Quote Originally Posted by SypherAL View Post
    How could you morons trust republicans with this? They cant even agree with themselves. Kiss all your retirement benefits goodbye if they ever get power again. America is doomed if people are this stupid.
    Not agreeing with their own group is a GOOD thing... it means some in the GOP are thinking of something OTHER than their own asses and re-election. People are stupid when they blindly follow the talking points of partisans and propoganda.
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


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    Re: Who do you trust to control the Deficit and solve our Debt Crises?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    Not agreeing with their own group is a GOOD thing... it means some in the GOP are thinking of something OTHER than their own asses and re-election. People are stupid when they blindly follow the talking points of partisans and propoganda.
    Im sorry but you are a moron. I know its hard to accept failed leadership on the party you support, but wake up. Conservatives will sink this country, just like they do everytime they get in power. Please use your brain, denial is not going to help us.

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    Re: Who do you trust to control the Deficit and solve our Debt Crises?

    70 percent of americans blame republicans for this mess, this forum must be the retarded 30 %

  8. #78
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    Re: Who do you trust to control the Deficit and solve our Debt Crises?

    Quote Originally Posted by SypherAL View Post
    Im sorry but you are a moron. I know its hard to accept failed leadership on the party you support, but wake up. Conservatives will sink this country, just like they do everytime they get in power. Please use your brain, denial is not going to help us.
    Since you will not be around very long, I want to at least provide you something constructive. Political groups do not always have to agree and in some cases it's best they do not. A robust debate is required in a free society and always has been.
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


  9. #79
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    Re: Who do you trust to control the Deficit and solve our Debt Crises?

    Neither party can be trusted. BOTH parties are responsible for the unconscionable amount of debt we have incurred, and BOTH parties are responsible for the shameful overspending, overpromising and undersaving for the nation's entitlement programs. Why should I trust any of them to actually fix things?

    The Dems are too busy pretending that Medicare is fine and that we can have all the spending we want and we'll make the rich guys pay for everything. The Repubs are too busy opposing EVERY single move and utterance the President makes, and pretending that taxes should be zero.

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  10. #80
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    Re: Who do you trust to control the Deficit and solve our Debt Crises?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    I'm not sure how (if at all) the CBO tries to measure the costs of wars. It's difficult because presidents have a tendency to suddenly change their minds when it's time to act. I would agree that the surge in Afghanistan was (at least in theory) a short-term measure that should be discontinued anyway. But in practice, it may turn out to be more than that, as putting more troops into Afghanistan reduces the likelihood that we'll withdraw them soon. So I dunno, I can see some justification for including that as a spending cut if it's eliminated. It just depends how you measure the baseline spending.
    they also claimed the "savings" from "cutting" the surge in Iraq. we leave Iraq in about 150 days. they want to claim a baseline of us Surging there for 10 years.

    it's flim-flamery. there was nothing in there that we were actually going to spend money on that they have now decided not to.

    But really we should eliminate 100% of the spending for the war in Afghanistan, so it's a moot point.
    on there we're going to disagree; but it's a debate for another thread.

    I strongly disagree with this. Interest payments are absolutely a component of our long-term budgetary problems. Reducing the long-term deficit will reduce our interest payments, and therefore reduce spending in the long term.
    i agree that reducing the amount we go further into debt makes it easier later to maintain payments on the debt. but that's not quite what we are measuring here. For example, if we were to pass a measure that was nothing but a $2 Trillion tax increase... but that "saved" us $500 Bn in interest payments, Obama and Reid would claim that the tax-hike-to-spending-cut ratio was 4:1. that's bogus, there wasn't a single actual "cut" anywhere in the deal.

    This is one of the reasons why I think it's so dangerous for us to have a debt ceiling in the first place...if the opposition (either next week or in a future debt ceiling debate) pushes it to the brink and is then unable to walk it back and make a deal to raise it, it will negatively impact our credit rating.
    I look at that as sort of like getting the dead form of a virus to protect you from the real killer. the debt ceiling has been used on multiple occasions (the 50's, for example) to rein in an expansive administrations' spending.

    A 1% increase in our interest rate would lead to an extra trillion dollars in interest payments (and therefore in government spending).
    agreed. but the real threat to our credit rating is the debt, not the debt ceiling. the bond markets do not really care if we have to shut down the department of agriculture - they know they get paid first. but we are accumulating to the point where we risk becoming Greece, and everyone there knows that bohdholders will be taking a serious haircut.

    Frankly I don't see how anyone could see it any other way. Why would reductions in interest payments from borrowing less not be a legitimate spending cut?
    because there was no "spending" "cut". nothing was "reduced".

    It depends what those efficiencies are, how important they are to the overall budget, and whether or not they're binding. So in my opinion the ACA would count as spending reductions from improving efficiency, whereas eliminating the occasional poster-child pork project or agriculture subsidy does not.
    : the ACA? that behemoth?

    brother, the ACA is doomed. even if Republicans weren't going to kill it, it would never be fully implemented.

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