View Poll Results: Do we get out of debt by raising taxes, cutting tax breaks, AND cutting some spending

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  • Yes. We must seriously tighten our belts.

    17 62.96%
  • No. (Alternate theory)

    10 37.04%
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Thread: The best way to fix our Economy?

  1. #41
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    Re: The best way to fix our Economy?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    absolute truth. a majority of the tax the rich posts come from spite and envy based on the attitudes of those who post such tings
    TurtleDue ... I've heard you argue this case for some time now and have yet to see you post any evidence of it ... your case may be the least bit convincing if you at least provided some sources, research articles, etc. .. as of now your claims just look like rants ... just trying to help man

  2. #42
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    Re: The best way to fix our Economy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    The difference is, you believe in all the class warfare and that government exists to provide for you. I believe that people should be left alone to do as well as they can in life and that government shoudl stay out of people's way.
    Well, I believe that, so you can come argue with me instead. You don't quite have the whole position, though. You guys believe that talented and motivated people will naturally rise to the top, and that's a good thing. I agree, except that in reality, you need equal opportunity for that to happen. Otherwise you end up with Bush as president, while all the smart, talented kids who happen to attend an inner-city school get screwed. Capitalism is obviously not equipped to provide equal opportunity, since it's all about the centralization of wealth. If you really want to provide a fair playing field for competition, you need a solid socialist foundation for it.
    For: legalizing drugs, gay marriage, abortion, guns, universal health care, public sector jobs, nuclear power, free education, progressive taxation
    Against: corporations, make-work, the 40 hour work week, intellectual property, imperialism, "homeland security," censorship

  3. #43
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    Re: The best way to fix our Economy?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    the middle class uses a ton of government services and pays artificially low taxes. I believe that the government should be substantially cut back so no one's taxes are increased and those who pay too much would gain significant reductions. But if taxes HAVE to be increased it should be on the class that uses the most services, supplies most of the votes for big spending politicians, and pays artificially low income taxes.
    Can you please give a definition of what you are calling the middle class and then show me a source that says they are using up the most services. It would really help your case. Finally, we went over this yesterday ... taxing those who don't have any money is not going to help.

  4. #44
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    Re: The best way to fix our Economy?

    Quote Originally Posted by atrasicarius View Post
    Well, I believe that, so you can come argue with me instead. You don't quite have the whole position, though. You guys believe that talented and motivated people will naturally rise to the top, and that's a good thing. I agree, except that in reality, you need equal opportunity for that to happen. Otherwise you end up with Bush as president, while all the smart, talented kids who happen to attend an inner-city school get screwed. Capitalism is obviously not equipped to provide equal opportunity, since it's all about the centralization of wealth. If you really want to provide a fair playing field for competition, you need a solid socialist foundation for it.
    My thoughts exactly. A fair playing ground is needed. A select handful of middle class might make it to 250k and up, but certainly not enough and forget the top 5%. This is because no one started evenly when America was founded. There were the upper class and the lower class then and much of that is likely the reason there is still this disparity. Anytime one individual is born into a world with nothing and another is born with everything ... there is a problem. Add in class-ism, racism all those great isms, and you have a recipe for disaster and little opportunities for one to rise up the ladder.

  5. #45
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    Re: The best way to fix our Economy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Prove it then, if you can! Post a quote of mine where I say the "rich are evil and dastardly", or where I suggest "spreading the wealth around". If you can't, people will see you for what you are, dishonest. Happy hunting!

    Yeah... seee, there's a thing called "Search" where you can put in something called "keywords" and all I had to do was search for the last 3 months, and I only had to pick two threads and my proof appeared.

    You're obsessed with rich people - they OWE you and everyone else apparently. Here's the list, I've included the links too. Oh and by the way, there were 8 (that's E I G H T) more threads I didn't both with which was a treasure trove of your class warfare ideology, along with donc, rangel, petey, and a few others. Quite the class warfare clan you have going.

    When I look at this stuff all at the same time, it project class hate. You hate rich people. You dislike the tax cuts because it favors rich people. Rich people deserve to pay more to support those who don't have as much - ie., spreading the wealth around. You even claim you're glad to be a socialist in one of the little clips. I mean, are you really now going to deny it and try pulling some nonsense that I'm a liar?

    Just go back and look at every other political cartoon picture you've ever posted in that long thread - 50% or more all have to do with class warfare and ugly rich people or a picture of some rich dude holding bags of money and whatnot.

    Here's the part where you claim it's only 49.9% and not 50% or make some other lame-o excuse. At least be a man and stand up for what you are and admit it. Don't back pedal now - it looks weak and paltry.


    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba
    And they are not happy with their Congressional representatives that want to cut benefits to the middle class and increase the tax cuts to the rich!
    http://www.debatepolitics.com/us-par...post1059445921
    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba
    The debt was not created by seniors, and it will not be solved on their backs. If you are serious about addressing the debt, it will have be solved by addressing the major causes of its creation - 30 years of tax cuts for the wealthiest Americans, optional wars, imperialistic sized miliirary spending, and the most expensive health care system in the world.
    http://www.debatepolitics.com/us-par...post1059453195

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba
    Since the Reagan tax cuts for the wealthy were even bigger and lasted 3 times as long, we can safely say that between the Reagan/Bush tax cuts, the have cost the country at least $6 trillion dollars in income.
    http://www.debatepolitics.com/us-par...post1059453273
    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba
    The current path has be changed, that's for sure. However, we need to address the root cause of the problems, the highest health care cost in the world and 30 years of using SS funds to pay for tax cuts to the rich.

    http://www.debatepolitics.com/us-par...post1059457730
    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba
    You are right that the baby boomers are responsible to make sure our largest problems, highest health care costs in the world and 30 years of tax breaks for the wealty, are addresed. http://www.debatepolitics.com/us-par...post1059459608
    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba
    If the rich want their optional wars and military spending continued that almost equals the rest of the world combined, they will have to pay for them rather than continuing to rob SS and add to the national debt.

    http://www.debatepolitics.com/us-par...post1059474469
    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba
    It is the rich that declared war on the middle class. We have just decided to fight back. Read up on why our forefathers originally created a progressive tax.
    http://www.debatepolitics.com/us-par...post1059477170

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba
    The problem has been that the party passed the tax cuts for the rich is the same one that increased the spending. This conservative policy of simultaneously cutting revenues and increasing spending has led to our debt problems.
    ...

    That is how the tax cuts to the rich are an expense to the country.

    http://www.debatepolitics.com/us-par...post1059478590
    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba
    The relevant question is what did the rich do to deserve the tax cuts to begin with?

    http://www.debatepolitics.com/us-par...post1059478865
    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba
    In order address its root cause (insufficient revenues and too much spending) as soon as we have recovered from the Bush recession, we need to address the cause of our national debt - eliminate the Bush tax cuts and loopholes for the rich and cut way back on our spending.

    http://www.debatepolitics.com/us-par...post1059479082
    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba
    The "Fair-tax" shell game is exposed below:

    "Suppose a bunch of rich people want to promote a national sales tax to replace the Federal income tax. How do they try to persuade the public to support such a plan? Simple: play with the arithmetic.
    http://www.debatepolitics.com/genera...post1059422114
    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba"The rich have enjoyed 30 years of tax cuts the working class have not.
    [url]http://www.debatepolitics.com/general-political-discussion/97001-why-not-consumption-tax-4.html#post1059426222[/url][/quote]

    [quote="Catawba
    The rich are getting richer and the poor are getting poorer at a staggering rate.

    http://www.debatepolitics.com/genera...post1059426616
    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba
    Super Rich Made $345 Million Each in 2007 as Their Tax Rates Plummeted

    http://www.debatepolitics.com/genera...post1059432871
    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba
    You truely can't figure out why the working class slipping into poverty while the rich get richer does not breed discontent?

    http://www.debatepolitics.com/genera...post1059433434
    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba
    In the end, it is just another tax cut plan for the rich but they call it "Fair" in hopes the middle class won't notice its going to cost them more, so the rich can get even more tax cuts then they are getting now.
    http://www.debatepolitics.com/genera...post1059433843

    Next time you need a DP reset, I'm your man. Consider yourself set straight. :
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


  6. #46
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    Re: The best way to fix our Economy?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    the middle class uses a ton of government services and pays artificially low taxes. I believe that the government should be substantially cut back so no one's taxes are increased and those who pay too much would gain significant reductions. But if taxes HAVE to be increased it should be on the class that uses the most services, supplies most of the votes for big spending politicians, and pays artificially low income taxes.
    So you think the regressive Fair tax would be the way to address this delusion of yours?
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  7. #47
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    Re: The best way to fix our Economy?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    its is worthless to claim many people want others to pay more taxes so they can have more benefits without paying for them

    when the majority of those making 250K to a few million clamor for tax hikes on the top 1 percent that might have some moral relevance.

    asking those who pay little or no federal income taxes if they think the "wealthy" should pay more is specious and demonstrates how shortsighted people are.
    I have a higher regard for the majority of the working class in this country.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  8. #48
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    Re: The best way to fix our Economy?

    Quote Originally Posted by MusicAdventurer View Post
    TurtleDue ... I've heard you argue this case for some time now and have yet to see you post any evidence of it ... your case may be the least bit convincing if you at least provided some sources, research articles, etc. .. as of now your claims just look like rants ... just trying to help man
    BS-this board is full of tax hikers who constantly claim the rich "stole" wealth or "cheated" people or don't pay "fair wages" etc

    that oozes spite and envy. I don't need your help I have been doing fine dealing with the parasitic left here for close to 6 years. And your other posts suggest you are part of the problem I have noted



  9. #49
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    Re: The best way to fix our Economy?

    Quote Originally Posted by MusicAdventurer View Post
    TurtleDue ... I've heard you argue this case for some time now and have yet to see you post any evidence of it ... your case may be the least bit convincing if you at least provided some sources, research articles, etc. .. as of now your claims just look like rants ... just trying to help man
    The Turtledude doesn't do facts. He has stated that his professional opinion should be sufficient!
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  10. #50
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    Re: The best way to fix our Economy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    I have a higher regard for the majority of the working class in this country.
    that is an interesting way of justifying confiscating wealth to buy the votes of the "working class"



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