View Poll Results: Do sources truly matter when forum debating?

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Thread: Does posting sources while debating matter?

  1. #1
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    Does posting sources while debating matter?

    I think it's a fair question. Based on my years debating, whenever a user posts sources, the other users are usually never persuaded. It may persuade a few viewers, but typically, if you watch closely, you'll discern a general pattern when a source is posted. It's either ignored entirely, questioned, or countered with another source until both users get frustrated.

    I'm currently amassing a written notebook of multiple credible sources, organized by issues(general arguments and counters are listed as well).

    Basically, is it worth it if it virtually never persuades the opponent?
    Last edited by Wake; 07-16-11 at 12:15 AM.

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    Re: Does posting sources while debating matter?

    Yes and no. It is going to persuade your opponent? Probably not. They usually won't even look at it.

    But it may persuade a lurking fence-sitting. I've seen that happen more than once. So in my mind it's still worth doing.

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    Re: Does posting sources while debating matter?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wake View Post
    I think it's a fair question. Based on my years debating, whenever a user posts sources, the other users are usually never persuaded. It may persuade a few viewers, but typically, if you watch closely, you'll discern a general pattern when a source is posted. It's either ignored entirely, questioned, or countered with another source until both users get frustrated.

    I'm currently amassing a written notebook of multiple credible sources, organized by issues(general arguments and counters are listed as well).

    Basically, is it worth it if it virtually never persuades the opponent?
    On some subjects (say neoconservatism) what I do is write from my knowledge of it, and try to incorporate much of the written material one is likely to come across-but without necessarily picking specific texts, specific passages, or where you would find them. I have generally come to the conclusion that people would not bother going to a library or purchase the said texts, have a general minor curiosity in the manner, so I do my best to just alter them away from, say, the Wikipedia entry, or far worse, BBC documentaries floating on the net.
    Last edited by Fiddytree; 07-16-11 at 12:25 AM.
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    Re: Does posting sources while debating matter?

    Yes sources always matter... Especially in debatiing.


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    Re: Does posting sources while debating matter?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wake View Post
    I think it's a fair question. Based on my years debating, whenever a user posts sources, the other users are usually never persuaded. It may persuade a few viewers, but typically, if you watch closely, you'll discern a general pattern when a source is posted. It's either ignored entirely, questioned, or countered with another source until both users get frustrated.

    I'm currently amassing a written notebook of multiple credible sources, organized by issues(general arguments and counters are listed as well).

    Basically, is it worth it if it virtually never persuades the opponent?
    It's not gonna matter to the opponent, because most people in their stubborness will never admit when they are wrong.
    If you strike me down, I'll become more powerful than you could possibly imagine.

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    Re: Does posting sources while debating matter?

    Depends on the debate issue. In some, it can be very effective, in others, it doesn't matter so much. And, I do not believe the purpose of debate is to convince your opponent anyway. I always see debate as having 4 purposes:

    1) Present your position as clearly, completely, and as well as possible.
    2) Demonstrate that your opponent's position is as poor and invalid as possible.
    3) Make sure that inaccurate information is shown to be nonsense.
    4) Sway those who are undecided towards your side.

    Changing your opponents mind is never a goal for me, and is, for the most part, an unattainable goal.
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    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

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    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
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    Re: Does posting sources while debating matter?

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    Depends on the debate issue. In some, it can be very effective, in others, it doesn't matter so much. And, I do not believe the purpose of debate is to convince your opponent anyway. I always see debate as having 4 purposes:

    1) Present your position as clearly, completely, and as well as possible.
    2) Demonstrate that your opponent's position is as poor and invalid as possible.
    3) Make sure that inaccurate information is shown to be nonsense.
    4) Sway those who are undecided towards your side.

    Changing your opponents mind is never a goal for me, and is, for the most part, an unattainable goal.
    That was informative and well-put; those goals will definitely be used. Thank you.

    So... it'd be wise to gather a lot of sources on paper? Perhaps, for swift convenience, large and well-constructed arguments could by typed up on a Microsoft document... and then be copied and pasted? I think it'd be a more advantageous way of debating to have a massive and relevant argument already typed up and ready to post.

    Basically, I want to become a very experienced debater, and now it seems it's worth the effort to create a conceptual warchest.

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    Re: Does posting sources while debating matter?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    Yes sources always matter... Especially in debatiing.
    Last I checked, the national system for highschool debate competitions had Lincoln-Douglas and Team-Debate. Lincoln-Douglas is a discussion of ethics, morals and philosophy; things like 'right to privacy', 'free speech' and other topics not likely to be as strongly supported by citations as by reasoning; a Lincoln-Douglas debater (solo) would bring perhaps a couple magazines (US News, Newsweek, etc). Team-Debate (remember, this was before computers) was two people who argued as a team about hard issues with stats and legal reference; they carried 2-5 suitcases of reference material to the debate competition.

    I find that citations are only necessary when the other person claims that I have no idea what I'm talking about, or if my 'opponent' has no idea what they are talking about. Perhaps your extreme stance, TheDemSocialist, is such that you are constantly in the position of being accused of having no idea or believing that your 'opponent' has no idea.
    Last edited by ecofarm; 07-16-11 at 02:20 AM.

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    Re: Does posting sources while debating matter?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wake View Post
    Basically, I want to become a very experienced debater, and now it seems it's worth the effort to create a conceptual warchest.
    As a social conservative, you will be best off just mindlessly repeating talking points or posting junk science from discredited sources and claiming they are just as viable as any other source.

    So... it'd be wise to gather a lot of sources on paper? Perhaps, for swift convenience, large and well-constructed arguments could by typed up on a Microsoft document... and then be copied and pasted? I think it'd be a more advantageous way of debating to have a massive and relevant argument already typed up and ready to post.
    That is called flooding. That is a tactic for amateur debaters. If you had a decent argument then you could sum it up in just a few sentences and would only need a few sources of supporting documentation. Flooding indicates that you know your argument is weak so you intend to tire your opponent out by having them refute dozens of weak arguments and sources that you have amassed together.
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  10. #10
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    Re: Does posting sources while debating matter?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wake View Post
    That was informative and well-put; those goals will definitely be used. Thank you.

    So... it'd be wise to gather a lot of sources on paper? Perhaps, for swift convenience, large and well-constructed arguments could by typed up on a Microsoft document... and then be copied and pasted? I think it'd be a more advantageous way of debating to have a massive and relevant argument already typed up and ready to post.

    Basically, I want to become a very experienced debater, and now it seems it's worth the effort to create a conceptual warchest.
    I have a host of bookmarks linking to sources... all filed under different topics. Over the years, I've become familiar enough with the information that I can paraphrase and use it without always sourcing it, but it's there if I need it. It's good to have lots of sources at your disposal, but it is better to have read those sources completely and understand then, so you can use the information more fluidly.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

    ====||:-D

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

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