View Poll Results: Do sources truly matter when forum debating?

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  • Yes

    41 80.39%
  • No

    10 19.61%
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Thread: Does posting sources while debating matter?

  1. #81
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    Re: Does posting sources while debating matter?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wake View Post
    That is true; I've used my own words yet found a few gems of info in certain books---I use their cites.

    I have a bit of my own opinion, but then I cite facts. This argument is about guns. I cannot copy/post on this phone, but I have a rough example of a segment and the cite:

    (((In 1996, Australian lawmakers passed sweeping legislation banning guns. Their intent was to make Australia a safer country. What they did was make it a soft target for criminals. Within just a few years of the gun ban, homicides were up 3.2% in Australia. Assaults were up 8.6%. Armed robberies climbed nearly 45%! In the Australian state of Victoria, gun homicides climbed 300%! (18) Does this sound safe to you?)))

    (18) (Cite) ---> (In italics) The International Crime Victims Survey, conducted by Leiden University in Holland; Jon Dougherty, "Britain, Australia top U.S. in violent crime," WorldNetDaily.com, March 5, 2001.

    I did a ton of argumentative research papers and arguments in college, and they only required 15 proper MLA cites per paper. What really worries me is that despite good structure and anchoring, my argument will be nit-picked apart. If I inadvertently not cite a little blip of data, though I've cited 20+ actual hard-searched sources, then I'd feel that I'm being trolled. College standards are greater than internet forum standards; I don't want to have to cite every blip of data, or worse, general knowledge.
    Most of that will deal with opinion. To know what I mean, you should look up causal relationship error. Both sides of the issue often make that mistake.

    And it will likely be attacked, so know what to expect, plan for their rebuttal (in one for or another, they will likely attack your numbers and seek to show a causal relationship error).

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Does posting sources while debating matter?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wake View Post
    I think it's a fair question. Based on my years debating, whenever a user posts sources, the other users are usually never persuaded. It may persuade a few viewers, but typically, if you watch closely, you'll discern a general pattern when a source is posted. It's either ignored entirely, questioned, or countered with another source until both users get frustrated.

    I'm currently amassing a written notebook of multiple credible sources, organized by issues(general arguments and counters are listed as well).

    Basically, is it worth it if it virtually never persuades the opponent?
    I change my answer. I previously said "yes", but now I'm pretty sure it's "no". It turns out that for many posters, dictionaries are horrible sources for definitions of words. The more you know.

  3. #83
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    Re: Does posting sources while debating matter?

    Unless you are debating something that relies on opinion then sources really don't matter but if one is debating the economy or budget or something where a viewpoint is relying on hard evidence or one is making a claim that someone stated something than I link is needed. I have typically found though when I post a link to support my postion or statements that the person with the opposing viewpoint does typically ignore it and goes on the personal attack rampage. This to me simply shows I am right and they are wrong which is why they have stuped to the level of personal attacks and no longer wanting to debate the topic at hand.

  4. #84
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    Re: Does posting sources while debating matter?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    Yes sources always matter... Especially in debatiing.
    Only partially do they matter, but around here, not so much. People ask you for sources, but it's unlikely they will believe them. Calling what we do around here real debate is kind of funny anyway.
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  5. #85
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    Re: Does posting sources while debating matter?

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    Only partially do they matter, but around here, not so much. People ask you for sources, but it's unlikely they will believe them. Calling what we do around here real debate is kind of funny anyway.
    all too often, someone will squeal for "proof" and then categorically dismiss any source you link as biased, faulty, unscientific, etc. It's a waste of time.
    The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.

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    Re: Does posting sources while debating matter?

    Quote Originally Posted by OscarB63 View Post
    all too often, someone will squeal for "proof" and then categorically dismiss any source you link as biased, faulty, unscientific, etc. It's a waste of time.
    Well, usually there is a problem with the osurce. In today's world, you can find someone to say anything on the internet. I had a student once produce a source that said if you lost your arm in an accident, and smoked pot, it would grow back. Shouldn't I question that source? A source, and it happens, can take real numbers and draw wrong conclusions. So, a source isn't magic. They rarely end the debate. So, your ability to reason is simply more important than finding a source.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  7. #87
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    Re: Does posting sources while debating matter?

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Well, usually there is a problem with the osurce. In today's world, you can find someone to say anything on the internet. I had a student once produce a source that said if you lost your arm in an accident, and smoked pot, it would grow back. Shouldn't I question that source? A source, and it happens, can take real numbers and draw wrong conclusions. So, a source isn't magic. They rarely end the debate. So, your ability to reason is simply more important than finding a source.
    yeah, that was kinda my point. and on interwebz debates, it doesn't matter what the source is, your "opponent" is going to dismiss it. That's why the "prove it" retort is so stupid. because no matter what you link, they are not going to accept it as proof. they can't rebutt your arguement, so they ask for proof that they know they will not accept. one of the most lame and dishonest tactics in forumdom
    Last edited by OscarB63; 07-29-11 at 03:57 PM.
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  8. #88
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    Re: Does posting sources while debating matter?

    Quote Originally Posted by OscarB63 View Post
    yeah, that was kinda my point. and on interwebz debates, it doesn't matter what the source is, your "opponent" is going to dismiss it. That's why the "prove it" retort is so stupid. because no matter what you link, they are not going to accept it as proof. they can't rebutt your arguement, so they ask for proof that they know they will not accept. one of the most lame and dishonest tactics in forumdom
    True in some cases, and in some cases, the claim is so far out there that there really isn't anything you can do. Kind of like prove there isn't an Easter Bunny. What can you do with that but laugh? Some of the arguments here are pretty close to being just that silly.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Does posting sources while debating matter?

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    Only partially do they matter, but around here, not so much. People ask you for sources, but it's unlikely they will believe them. Calling what we do around here real debate is kind of funny anyway.
    So the conclusion is to completely throw in the towel and just say this is all about what you believe because you want to believe it?

    No thanks. That is NOT debate.

    When somebody makes an allegation of a fact - and they fail to back it up - everyone would insist that the penalty be ridicule and shame. But that never happens because the fellow true believers look the other way and pretend it did not happen.

    Honestly people, there are some of the leading posters here who would not get pass day one in an actual college debate situation.
    Last edited by haymarket; 07-29-11 at 04:26 PM.
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    Re: Does posting sources while debating matter?

    I made my first actual argument:

    http://www.debatepolitics.com/genera...guns-good.html

    I put work into this; please don't take it for granted.

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