View Poll Results: Do sources truly matter when forum debating?

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  • Yes

    41 80.39%
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Thread: Does posting sources while debating matter?

  1. #21
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    Re: Does posting sources while debating matter?

    I really liked that.

    I have an old Chinese proverb that is sort of like in the same theme.

    Give a man a fish for the night, you give him dinner. Teach a man on how to fish, and you give him dinner for a lifetime.

    Figured you might like that.

  2. #22
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    Re: Does posting sources while debating matter?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wake View Post
    Do sources truly matter when forum debating?
    Only if you wish your response to be considered credible.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  3. #23
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    Re: Does posting sources while debating matter?

    Quote Originally Posted by sookster View Post
    I really liked that.

    I have an old Chinese proverb that is sort of like in the same theme.

    Give a man a fish for the night, you give him dinner. Teach a man on how to fish, and you give him dinner for a lifetime.

    Figured you might like that.
    Here's a twist on that one:

    Give a man a fish, and he will have dinner.

    Teach a man to fish, and he will be late for dinner.

    Anyone who likes to fish will understand that one.

    And his wife will understand it even better.
    "Donald Trump is a phony, a fraud... [he's] playing the American public for suckers." Mitt Romney

  4. #24
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    Re: Does posting sources while debating matter?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wake View Post
    I think it's a fair question. Based on my years debating, whenever a user posts sources, the other users are usually never persuaded. It may persuade a few viewers, but typically, if you watch closely, you'll discern a general pattern when a source is posted. It's either ignored entirely, questioned, or countered with another source until both users get frustrated.

    I'm currently amassing a written notebook of multiple credible sources, organized by issues(general arguments and counters are listed as well).

    Basically, is it worth it if it virtually never persuades the opponent?
    I love reading sources, info and links - even when I'm not involved in the exchange. There have been countless times where I've used that link or info for another means altogether - nothing wrong with spreading knowledge.
    A screaming comes across the sky.
    It has happened before, but there is nothing to compare it to now.
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  5. #25
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    Re: Does posting sources while debating matter?

    Sources matter. I often go to the sources that are posted. Sometimes I get direct information that I was missing. Other times, e.g. when a source was sighted to show Obama’s spending the source was one on debt not spending. So I got to disabuse the poster of his misconception. A couple of times I’ve had to apologize since my source was incorrect.

  6. #26
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    Re: Does posting sources while debating matter?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    Here's a twist on that one:

    Give a man a fish, and he will have dinner.

    Teach a man to fish, and he will be late for dinner.

    Anyone who likes to fish will understand that one.

    And his wife will understand it even better.
    I take my wife with me. She is getting better. She has cought a big walleye in our river.
    Note in China and here the fish may not last a life time if people don't change their behavior.
    Last edited by OhIsee.Then; 07-16-11 at 09:49 PM.

  7. #27
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    Re: Does posting sources while debating matter?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wake View Post
    I think it's a fair question. Based on my years debating, whenever a user posts sources, the other users are usually never persuaded. It may persuade a few viewers, but typically, if you watch closely, you'll discern a general pattern when a source is posted. It's either ignored entirely, questioned, or countered with another source until both users get frustrated.

    I'm currently amassing a written notebook of multiple credible sources, organized by issues(general arguments and counters are listed as well).

    Basically, is it worth it if it virtually never persuades the opponent?
    Depends on the source, your audience and your opponent. You are entirely correct that there are some people who will never be swayed by any evidence. There are plenty of them right here. Even worse is when their own source refutes them and they refuse to acknowledge that. We see that from time to time. Kind of a sad reflection upon our education system, but that's neither here nor there.

    But I think you discount the fact that there are people reading the debate. Posting a solid piece of evidence that your opponent cannot refute casts serious doubt in the eyes of the audience. You cannot reason someone out of a position they did not reason themselves in to, but you can reason the audience into rejecting your opponent's position.

    In my experience, I'm kind of a jack*** to specific people because I know they won't ever learn. Nor will they ever take the time to actually read pieces of evidence. I needle them quite a bit to get the audience to see that not only are they entirely incapable of addressing my points, but that that completely ignore the evidence. I have an incredibly annoying tactic of constantly citing evidence that refutes my opponent giving them stark unpleasant choices of being dishonest, a coward or unable to read and comprehend English as to why they are deliberately running away from it. Plus making people angry generally causes them to make mistakes. And mistakes are opportunities.

    Reasonable opponents will address your links if the links themselves are reasonable, (aka, no World Net Daily/Move On crap) or concede their point as was weak. One should always cite if possible. And provide the actual link back to original source material. A few people have been caught either plagiarism or doctoring source documents when someone googled their original citation. Something about the anonymity of the internet causes major dishonesty.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

  8. #28
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    Re: Does posting sources while debating matter?

    many people post citations to supposed facts that really have nothing to do with the opinion they try to push. For example those who want to ban guns constantly claim the USA has a higher rate of gun violence than some nations that ban guns. That has absolutely no use in supporting the claim that gun bans in the USA would decrease violence. Same with those who claim that because the richest 5% have become richer that justifies more taxes on the rich. You can post sources all you want but they only have any use if they actually support your conclusion.



  9. #29
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    Re: Does posting sources while debating matter?

    believed by your opponents or not, is not what counts.

    having the honesty & courage to back-up one's assertions with actual evidence that has been put together by someone other than yourself, and hopefully by an expert on the subject matter, is what counts.

    its about having integrity. its about having respect for the debate.

  10. #30
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    Re: Does posting sources while debating matter?

    Quote Originally Posted by OhIsee.Then View Post
    I take my wife with me. She is getting better. She has cought a big walleye in our river.
    Note in China and here the fish may not last a life time if people don't change their behavior.
    That is an unfortunate truth.

    Catch and release, conserve water, protect rivers and lakes!
    "Donald Trump is a phony, a fraud... [he's] playing the American public for suckers." Mitt Romney

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