View Poll Results: Do sources truly matter when forum debating?

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    41 80.39%
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Thread: Does posting sources while debating matter?

  1. #91
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    Re: Does posting sources while debating matter?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    When somebody makes an allegation of a fact - and they fail to back it up - everyone would insist that the penalty be ridicule and shame. But that never happens because the fellow true believers look the other way and pretend it did not happen.

    Honestly people, there are some of the leading posters here who would not get pass day one in an actual college debate situation.

    I could claim that roses are red and link a picture of me standing in a freakin rose garden holding a dozen long stemmed red roses and there are posters here who would claim it was photoshopped. or they would quibble that not "ALL" roses are red.
    The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.

    An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.

  2. #92
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    Re: Does posting sources while debating matter?

    Quote Originally Posted by OscarB63 View Post
    all too often, someone will squeal for "proof" and then categorically dismiss any source you link as biased, faulty, unscientific, etc. It's a waste of time.
    or they post stuff that doesn't prove their claims

    for example saying the rich own X amount of the WEALTH and posting a graph of that and then whining that the RICH do not pay their FAIR SHARE of the INCOME tax.

    Or claiming that European crime statistics prove that gun bans would make America SAFER while ignoring the fact that areas of the USA with the most strict gun laws often have the highest rates of gun crime



  3. #93
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    Re: Does posting sources while debating matter?

    Quote Originally Posted by OscarB63 View Post
    I could claim that roses are red and link a picture of me standing in a freakin rose garden holding a dozen long stemmed red roses and there are posters here who would claim it was photoshopped. or they would quibble that not "ALL" roses are red.
    Which has what to do with my words that you posted preceding your ..... your ..... your whatever it was you posted and I have no idea what it has to do with anything because I have never seen an incident like the one your describe.

    Did something like that actually happen?

    Oscar ....... tell me.... tell us ....... why is it permissible in debate for anyone to make an assertion or allegation of historical fact and fail to support it with actual historical evidence?

    that is what we see here over and over and over again in thread after thread after thread on topic after topic after topic. And then some people even brag about their not having any evidewnce to back up their sources claiming they do simply not cotton to providing any verifiable evidence for their pompous pontifications.

    That is not debate and anyone who thinks it is knows nothing about debate.

    We should have two sections on this board... the first for actual debate with the normal procedures of debate including supporting your claims with verifiable sources. The second would be a WHAT I BELIEVE BECAUSE I WANT TO BELIEVE IT section. In it, faith would reign supreme and you would never have to support anything.
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  4. #94
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    Re: Does posting sources while debating matter?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Which has what to do with my words that you posted preceding your ..... your ..... your whatever it was you posted and I have no idea what it has to do with anything because I have never seen an incident like the one your describe.

    Did something like that actually happen?

    Oscar ....... tell me.... tell us ....... why is it permissible in debate for anyone to make an assertion or allegation of historical fact and fail to support it with actual historical evidence?

    that is what we see here over and over and over again in thread after thread after thread on topic after topic after topic. And then some people even brag about their not having any evidewnce to back up their sources claiming they do simply not cotton to providing any verifiable evidence for their pompous pontifications.

    That is not debate and anyone who thinks it is knows nothing about debate.

    We should have two sections on this board... the first for actual debate with the normal procedures of debate including supporting your claims with verifiable sources. The second would be a WHAT I BELIEVE BECAUSE I WANT TO BELIEVE IT section. In it, faith would reign supreme and you would never have to support anything.
    so who gets to decide what is or is not a "verifiable" source? that's the problem, neither side of the arguement is willing to accept any source that disagrees with their side as "verifiable" or "reputable" or "credible"
    The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.

    An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.

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    Re: Does posting sources while debating matter?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wake View Post
    So... it'd be wise to gather a lot of sources on paper? Perhaps, for swift convenience, large and well-constructed arguments could by typed up on a Microsoft document... and then be copied and pasted? I think it'd be a more advantageous way of debating to have a massive and relevant argument already typed up and ready to post.
    A lot of us have have had such files for a long time.

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    Re: Does posting sources while debating matter?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    A lot of us have have had such files for a long time.
    Interesting...

    I just finished my first Word Document argument today. The fun part is that now I can repost it or massive segments elsewhere to spread my highly credible and substantial argument across the subforums. Then, I can add to it and, with more research and comments from other members, make it bigger and better. Hopefully, I'll add in counter-arguments to bolster it also. It's almost becoming a hobby to me, this debating business.

  7. #97
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    Re: Does posting sources while debating matter?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    A lot of us have have had such files for a long time.
    yeah its a common tactic of some. however, it means little. that really is not "debating" but more like brief writing in a legal contest. its not oral argument, its competing memoranda of law



  8. #98
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    Re: Does posting sources while debating matter?

    Quote Originally Posted by OscarB63 View Post
    so who gets to decide what is or is not a "verifiable" source? that's the problem, neither side of the arguement is willing to accept any source that disagrees with their side as "verifiable" or "reputable" or "credible"
    Look - this is simple. If you make the statement that Democrats are behind the progressive income tax to keep themselves in power, that is an allegation of fact. You should be able to
    1) show from the historical record who it was that actually championed the progressive income tax
    2) show from the historical record who it was that actually provided most of the votes to pass the progressive income tax
    3) show from the historical record who has supported budget after budget the progressive income tax

    This is not freakin rocket science.

    Recently, I got sick and tired of a few posters claiming that it was Democrats who were responsible for the infamous group of 47% of people who pay no federal income tax. We heard this over and over and over again in thread after thread after thread every time the subject was raised by right wing posters. I got fed up and looked up who exactly was responsible.

    The answer: Republican President George Bush and his two 2001 and 2003 tax cuts created that situation. And who in Congress supported Bush and provided the YES votes for those cuts and the situation where 47% pay no federal income tax? Answer: 91% of the YES votes on those two bills were provided by REPUBLICANS.

    So I posted that information with links for support.

    Does that stop the exact same people from keeping on making the same ridiculous accusations against Democrats and own up to their own party and their responsibility?

    You get three guesses to answer that and the first two don't have to count.

    Like I said - is outright pathetic when some here openly brag that they don't use evidence and are only here to pontificate and spout off using their own beliefs as the end all of everything. They would not last one day in actual debate.
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    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

  9. #99
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    Re: Does posting sources while debating matter?

    I don't recall anyone blaming the dems for that fact-we merely noted that the dems are the ones who push for higher taxes on the rich and benefit the most from lots of voters who aren't given proper feedback about the cost of government



  10. #100
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    Re: Does posting sources while debating matter?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    I don't recall anyone blaming the dems for that fact-we merely noted that the dems are the ones who push for higher taxes on the rich and benefit the most from lots of voters who aren't given proper feedback about the cost of government
    Turtle - lets be frank and truthful here.... you blame the democrats for just about everything this side of hell for almost everything except bad weather .... and I probably just missed those posts. (thats a joke) Almost every time you complained bout the hated 47% that you targeted for your bile, you blamed the Democrats for their policies.

    And now you are committing another basic sin that we are discussing here.......... for a time beyond count or reckoning, you make the allegation that the Democrats benefit from voters from voters who are not given proper feedback about the cost of government.... and you do it without one shred of evidence or substantiation of any kind!!!!!!

    So how about it Turtle. This would be a good time to begin backing up your statements of alleged fact with data and actual verifiable evidence.
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

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