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Do You Want Higher Taxes?

TurtleDude said:
..Unions make US labor overpriced which is a main reason why jobs go to labor of the same quality that is cheaper. ie overseas.
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yeah, clothes made in Mexico, Guatemala, and China are of the same quality as clothes made in the USA.

right.....
 
Thunder said:
yeah, clothes made in Mexico, Guatemala, and China are of the same quality as clothes made in the USA.

right.....
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cars made in Korea and Japan are generally better than US made cars. Remind me about American made Televisions, or phones etc.

Where are brooks brothers shirts made? You can google that if you don't own any
 
SPC said:
OK. I just had to do this since Obama seems to think that 80% of Americans want higher taxes. Well......let's find out.:lamo
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Of course I don't want higher taxes. But we have to pay for what we let our government do. There's no such thing as a free lunch. If we don't like stuff like this, we have to do a better job controlling the government.
 
TurtleDude said:
cars made in Korea and Japan are generally better than US made cars. Remind me about American made Televisions, or phones etc.

Where are brooks brothers shirts made? You can google that if you don't own any
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tell us again how clothes made in Taiwan, China, Guatemala, and Mexico...are of the same quality as clothes made in the USA.
 
Thunder said:
tell us again how clothes made in Taiwan, China, Guatemala, and Mexico...are of the same quality as clothes made in the USA.
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why are you trying to derail a point with this silly claim. the fact is many other countries have workers equally skilled to those in the USA -especially in low skilled manufacturing jobs-and at far lower costs
 
TurtleDude said:
why are you trying to derail a point with this silly claim. the fact is many other countries have workers equally skilled to those in the USA -especially in low skilled manufacturing jobs-and at far lower costs
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it is your claim that manufacturing jobs are moved over-seas, because corporations can get the same-quality as American-made products, with mch lower costs, over-seas

TurtleDude said:
..Unions make US labor overpriced which is a main reason why jobs go to labor of the same quality that is cheaper. ie overseas.
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so, I am asking you: do you believe, as you seem to be claiming, that clothes made in Guatemala, China, Japan, Taiwan, Mexico, etc etc...are the same quality as American-made clothes?
 
Thunder said:
it is your claim that manufacturing jobs are moved over-seas, because corporations can get the same-quality as American-made products, with mch lower costs, over-seas



so, I am asking you: do you believe, as you seem to be claiming, that clothes made in Guatemala, China, Japan, Taiwan, Mexico, etc etc...are the same quality as American-made clothes?
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In many cases yes. Japan especially. Under Armor is made in Mexico. BB shirts are made in various countries. Most major shoe companies have their stuff made in china. what exactly are all the American made stuff you bray about?
 
TurtleDude said:
There is a serious disconnect in your post

Unions make US labor overpriced which is a main reason why jobs go to labor of the same quality that is cheaper. ie overseas.
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OK, please consider the following:

1: it seems like Unions exist because enough people got tired of working for unfit wages and or poor working conditions etc.

2: it seems like large corporations and businesses are not making the profit they desire (i.e. they are very greedy) by paying decent wages etc.

3: because other countries have lower standards, i.e. their governments allow them to work for next to nothing, and because our government allows us to outsource, companies outsource

4: it appears that our country would rather supply american citizens with the profits gained on the backs of mistreated outsourced employees (i.e. through providing assistance to the american unemployed, welfare etc.)

5: it appears as though we have a double standard .. specifically, we allow humans that are not inside our country to work for us under lower wages ... but will not allow this here at home

So I'm asking myself .. what wrong with this picture?
 
MusicAdventurer said:
OK, please consider the following:

1: it seems like Unions exist because enough people got tired of working for unfit wages and or poor working conditions etc.

2: it seems like large corporations and businesses are not making the profit they desire (i.e. they are very greedy) by paying decent wages etc.

3: because other countries have lower standards, i.e. their governments allow them to work for next to nothing, and because our government allows us to outsource, companies outsource

4: it appears that our country would rather supply american citizens with the profits gained on the backs of mistreated outsourced employees (i.e. through providing assistance to the american unemployed, welfare etc.)

5: it appears as though we have a double standard .. specifically, we allow humans that are not inside our country to work for us under lower wages ... but will not allow this here at home

So I'm asking myself .. what wrong with this picture?
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what is wrong with the picture is your idiotic assumption I highlighted in bold

one of the major problems libs have is whining about unionization being hurt by companies seeking lower labor costs (which of course is the right and proper duty of a corporate manager) and their whining about "the third world". outsourcing businesses helps those third world countries and "spreads the wealth"
 
TurtleDude said:
In many cases yes. Japan especially. Under Armor is made in Mexico. BB shirts are made in various countries. Most major shoe companies have their stuff made in china. what exactly are all the American made stuff you bray about?
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The GAP, Old Navy, and many brands sold at Macy's and Sears that are manufactured over-seas, are clearly of poorer quality than American-made clothes.

Corporations don't move their clothing manufacturing operations over-seas because they can get the same high quality for lower costs, they move their operations over-seas because they MAY be able to get the same quality, for basically barely livable wages.

Do you like the fact that American corporations move their manufacturing operations to nations where horrible labor abuses, insanely low-wages, and rampant fraud & abuse, is legal and allowed?

Honestly, in the name of the free-market and the acquisition of vast-sums of wealth, you seem to not care.
 
TurtleDude said:
cars made in Korea and Japan are generally better than US made cars. Remind me about American made Televisions, or phones etc.

Where are brooks brothers shirts made? You can google that if you don't own any
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Just so you know (and I can get you a citation, just have to dig through my books), there have been studies on why foreign cars are better. I believe the reasons had nothing to do with low wages. Actually, the employees were paid quite well. Additionally, all employees were involved in decision making processes and so on. In essence, these cars are built well because the companies aren't completely run by greed and corruption, which seems to be so present here.
 
Thunder said:
The GAP, Old Navy, and many brands sold at Macy's and Sears that are manufactured over-seas, are clearly of poorer quality than American-made clothes.

Corporations don't move their clothing manufacturing operations over-seas because they can get the same high quality for lower costs, they move their operations over-seas because they MAY be able to get the same quality, for basically barely livable wages.

Do you like the fact that American corporations move their manufacturing operations to nations where horrible labor abuses, insanely low-wages, and rampant fraud & abuse, is legal and allowed?

Honestly, in the name of the free-market and the acquisition of vast-sums of wealth, you seem to not care.
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I am waiting for some proof of your claims given some of the most respected brands are made overseas.
 
MusicAdventurer said:
Just so you know (and I can get you a citation, just have to dig through my books), there have been studies on why foreign cars are better. I believe the reasons had nothing to do with low wages. Actually, the employees were paid quite well. Additionally, all employees were involved in decision making processes and so on. In essence, these cars are built well because the companies aren't completely run by greed and corruption, which seems to be so present here.
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"greed and corruption" tell us what you do for a living.
 
TurtleDude said:
why are you trying to derail a point with this silly claim. the fact is many other countries have workers equally skilled to those in the USA -especially in low skilled manufacturing jobs-and at far lower costs
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This is not true, compared to living expenses there, they are paid very well (again I have to dig for my source).
 
MusicAdventurer said:
This is not true, compared to living expenses there, they are paid very well (again I have to dig for my source).
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how does your comment establish what I said was not true. How many manufacturing operations have you run or been associated with?
 
TurtleDude said:
what is wrong with the picture is your idiotic assumption I highlighted in bold

one of the major problems libs have is whining about unionization being hurt by companies seeking lower labor costs (which of course is the right and proper duty of a corporate manager) and their whining about "the third world". outsourcing businesses helps those third world countries and "spreads the wealth"
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Are you saying that you support poor working conditions and poor wages?
 
MusicAdventurer said:
Are you saying that you support poor working conditions and poor wages?
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I support the right to contract and the right of a corporation to find suitable quality commodities at the lowest prices possible.
 
TurtleDude said:
how does your comment establish what I said was not true. How many manufacturing operations have you run or been associated with?
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As I said a few posts above that one (sorry, didn't think I needed to repeat it) .. there was research done to examine why foreign cars are made better. Those were their findings (see above)
 
TurtleDude said:
I support the right to contract and the right of a corporation to find suitable quality commodities at the lowest prices possible.
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You sound like a politician, lol!

You completely dodged my question ... what you are really saying is that you do support poor wages and working conditions.
 
MusicAdventurer said:
You sound like a politician, lol!

You completely dodged my question ... what you are really saying is that you do support poor wages and working conditions.
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I support market reality. who are you to say what poor working conditions or wages are. Wages are proper if it obtains the suitable quantity and quality of labor needed by the employer
 
TurtleDude said:
I support the right to contract and the right of a corporation to find suitable quality commodities at the lowest prices possible.
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How do you feel about American corporations, owned by American citizens moving their manufacturing jobs overseas, thereby laying-off thousands of hard-working Americans, and giving the jobs to folks who suffer wide-ranging abuses, poor working conditions, horribly low-wages, and often violence?

do you support such decisions in the name of the Free Market and the uninhibited acquisition of mass sums of wealth?
 
Thunder said:
How do you feel about American corporations, owned by American citizens moving their manufacturing jobs overseas, thereby laying-off thousands of hard-working Americans, and giving the jobs to folks who suffer wide-ranging abuses, poor working conditions, horribly low-wages, and often violence?

do you support such decisions in the name of the Free Market and the uninhibited acquisition of mass sums of wealth?
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corporations exist to make their owners money. Not to give people jobs. Jobs are nothing more than a commodity of labor that a corporation may need. If it no longer needs that commodity it has no duty to continue to buy it

If you have a problem then your quarrel is with other governments and who are you to tell other nations how they should run their labor system? are you so arrogant as to believe you should impose your leftwing american guilt onto other nations and people?
 
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