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Thread: Do You Want Higher Taxes?

  1. #51
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    Re: Do You Want Higher Taxes?

    Quote Originally Posted by Badmutha View Post
    Me and Ben will not budge....

    "I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it."
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    Could not agree more with this statement.

    The following is my understanding of my State's welfare program:

    Currently, there are built in rewards for the poor to make more money (at least in my State; see below for an example). However, there are consequences for making too much money. Families can easily use thousands of dollars worth of government food stamps, housing assistance and healthcare. Unfortunately, families can make say $1,000 more during a year and loose state assistance. In other words, if a family is using $4,000 worth of state healthcare, then someone gets a raise (for example) putting their household income $1,000 more than they made before, they are suddenly taken of state healthcare and are down $3,000 per year. If the family understands this concept and they are already barely scraping by (which is the case when on welfare), they are likely to avoid making that extra $1,000 in order to avoid loosing $3,000 in welfare. Therefore, if this ceiling were not in place, and those on welfare were not penalized for making more money, I believe more people would be making efforts to come off welfare.

    The built in reward (which many are not aware of ) is that for programs that are based on percentiles, e.g. there is a housing assistance program in which those approved pay only 30% of their income toward rent, there is incentive to make more money. For example, the below two income levels and budgets are simplified versions of the "built in reward system":

    Family 1:
    Income = $12,000 per year ($1,000 per month)

    Rent = $300

    This family would be left with $700 per month for the rest of their bills.

    Family 2:
    Income = $24,000 per year ($2,000 per month)

    Rent = $600 per month

    This family would be left with $11400 per month for the rest of their bills (that is double what family 1 has leftover for their bills). Therefore, under this program there are clearly benefits to making more money ... of course until you make a few hundred over the cut-off.

    I am not sure if there are any built in tax reduction benefits for making more money in the lower income brackets, but if they do exist, I am not aware of them and obviously state workers should be educating those on welfare of such tax rewards (if they exist), as I have talked to many families and they do not know of such benefits. Additionally, most families are not aware of the built in rewards that are in place (see above) and thus social workers should be educating families about them.

  2. #52
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    Re: Do You Want Higher Taxes?

    Quote Originally Posted by Helvidius View Post
    I doubt most people want higher taxes for themselves. They want others to have higher taxes.
    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    I believe in an extreme form of progressive taxation. The more you make the more you are taxed...
    So yes i would like to see taxes raised.
    I guess socialism is a good thing if you get to live off other people's income.

  3. #53
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    Re: Do You Want Higher Taxes?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    Yep they are gonna hurt and get a big punishment if the riches taxes are raised. Such a punishment i feel so bad for them...


    Yep the poor, middle and working class are just a bunch of failures arent they? Just failed at life...



    Your a socialist now!
    Welcome Comrade!
    I am not sure that they are understanding what you mean by progressive taxation. As we both know .. it is not a punishment at all! Lol! For example, under progressive taxation, someone who makes say $900,000 one year and $1,000,000 the next is not disallowed to make more money on the second year .. instead, the percent they are taxed is slightly higher. Therefore, they still make their big bucks and those who haven't inherited millions (not that all millionaires inherit there wealth, only to point out the fact that things have been uneven since the beginning of our society) won't starve and may have a roof over their heads.

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    Re: Do You Want Higher Taxes?

    Quote Originally Posted by Badmutha
    Punish Success--Reward Failure........thats the spirit comrade.
    There's something you fail to appreciate: sometimes we rightfully punish success and reward failure. For instance, if I am successful at killing a bunch of innocent people, I am punished. If I am unsuccessful, my reward is a much lighter sentence compared to what I would have gotten. Ditto someone who rips a bunch of people off as compared to someone who tries but fails.

    I think it's at least the perception of quite a few people that most of the wealthy people in America got their wealth by theft. Which means that they ought to be punished if that supposition is correct (a principle with which you agree, I would assume).

    As for the poll answer: yes, I believe taxes should be raised on the wealthy and corporations. I'm not in the top tax brackets any more, but I used to be, and I supported those policies then, and willingly donated my money.

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    Re: Do You Want Higher Taxes?

    Quote Originally Posted by ashurbanipal View Post
    There's something you fail to appreciate: sometimes we rightfully punish success and reward failure. For instance, if I am successful at killing a bunch of innocent people, I am punished. If I am unsuccessful, my reward is a much lighter sentence compared to what I would have gotten. Ditto someone who rips a bunch of people off as compared to someone who tries but fails.

    I think it's at least the perception of quite a few people that most of the wealthy people in America got their wealth by theft. Which means that they ought to be punished if that supposition is correct (a principle with which you agree, I would assume).

    As for the poll answer: yes, I believe taxes should be raised on the wealthy and corporations. I'm not in the top tax brackets any more, but I used to be, and I supported those policies then, and willingly donated my money.
    I am not sure if you are being facetious or not, but I certainly do not believe that the rich stole their money. I do believe that many have inherited their wealth though. I also prescribe to an ethic that states that if you hoard so much money .. to the point of allowing others to starve .. you are actually indirectly murdering. This is the short but sweet version of the ethical stance .. but that's the idea.

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    Re: Do You Want Higher Taxes?

    Quote Originally Posted by MusicAdventurer View Post
    I am not sure if you are being facetious or not, but I certainly do not believe that the rich stole their money. I do believe that many have inherited their wealth though. I also prescribe to an ethic that states that if you hoard so much money .. to the point of allowing others to starve .. you are actually indirectly murdering. This is the short but sweet version of the ethical stance .. but that's the idea.
    how does hoarding what you earned cause anyone else to starve?



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    Re: Do You Want Higher Taxes?

    I can't understand why people focus so much on how much poor people cost society with the current amount of corporate welfare and bail outs for the rich. If poor people are to pay for their own health care, there needs to be jobs that provide a decent wages and benefits to support families. Otherwise, some agency has to step in, at least for the kids.
    “In politics, stupidity is not a handicap.” -Napoleon

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    Re: Do You Want Higher Taxes?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    how does hoarding what you earned cause anyone else to starve?
    Its very simple actually. If there are plenty of resources for all and someone hoards most of them .. then they are keeping those resources from others.

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    Re: Do You Want Higher Taxes?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    how does hoarding what you earned cause anyone else to starve?
    It involves the concept of sharing resources, versus being stingy with them.

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    Re: Do You Want Higher Taxes?

    Quote Originally Posted by MusicAdventurer View Post
    Its very simple actually. If there are plenty of resources for all and someone hoards most of them .. then they are keeping those resources from others.
    so you are saying someone who accumulates wealth by earning it has taken something from those who are unable to earn it themselves.

    like the world is one big grocery store and the rich go in and grab all the food before those poor people even can get in the doors?



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