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Thread: Do You Want Higher Taxes?

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    Re: Do You Want Higher Taxes?

    Quote Originally Posted by MusicAdventurer View Post
    I am all for social safety nets .. however I think our current safety nets could be better, I am arguing for the same thing you are. What do I need to do to convince of it? What did I say wrong, jeez!!!!!
    I agree that there is room for improvement. We have no quarrel on that point. However, I do object to your claim that the current welfare system is encouraging dependancy when the facts show the opposite. The fact that I disagree with you on one point does not mean that I am being hostile. Just honest
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    Re: Do You Want Higher Taxes?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    Like your personal opinions on the wealthy, rich and spreading the wealth around? Good point.
    "The richest 1 percent of Americans now take home almost 24 percent of income, up from almost 9 percent in 1976. As Timothy Noah of Slate noted in an excellent series on inequality, the United States now arguably has a more unequal distribution of wealth than traditional banana republics like Nicaragua, Venezuela and Guyana."
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/1..._n_779985.html

    "It's even more revealing to compare the actual rates of increase of the salaries of CEOs and ordinary workers; from 1990 to 2005, CEOs' pay increased almost 300% (adjusted for inflation), while production workers gained a scant 4.3%. The purchasing power of the federal minimum wage actually declined by 9.3%, when inflation is taken into account."
    Who Rules America: Wealth, Income, and Power

    "Robert Reich, former Secretary of Labor under President Bill Clinton recently cited a Forbes magazine story that reported the combined net worth of the 400 richest Americans climbed 8% during the last year, while the rest of America has gotten poorer. Reich says, "only twice before in American history has so much been held by so few, and the gap between them and the great majority been a chasm--in the late 1920's and in the era of the robber barons in the l880's."
    Will income inequality cause class warfare? | Psychology Today
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: Do You Want Higher Taxes?

    Quote Originally Posted by MusicAdventurer View Post
    My OP (the link) describes how (to the best of my knowledge) the system encourages the poor to stay on certain government safety nets (not necessarily cash payouts) due to poorly chosen cut-offs (meaning at a specific point, welfare is cut-off, which is not O.K. since they are then not making enough to pay for all of their healthcare bills etc., it leaves them hanging thus discouraging them from making more money). This is my understanding of how it currently works, I outlined a scenario in my original post. If you have different information I would be grateful if you shared it with me.
    In that case, I have to apologize. When I first went back, I saw your link to an article that IMO argued against "encouraging dependency". I did not realize that you had posted two links. IOW, I missed the link to your OP, which I have now gone back and read. My bad

    I happen to agree with the main thrust of that OP. There are disincentives in the welfare system that discourages welfare recipients from making slightly more money. I have no quarrel with your criticisms on that score, and I apologize if my confusion led you to believe that I was criticizing the OP. The only objection I have now, is not with your facts or your conclusion, but with the language of "dependency". When welfare recipients make decisions to maximize their income, as your OP describes, I don't see that as "encouraging dependency". I think it's a sign that these welfare recipients are developing the financial acumen necessary for survival in this economy. IMO, that's the opposite of dependency.

    So basically, we have a difference in rhetoric, not values or positions. Again, my apologies for the confusion
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    Re: Do You Want Higher Taxes?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    "The richest 1 percent of Americans now take home almost 24 percent of income, up from almost 9 percent in 1976. As Timothy Noah of Slate noted in an excellent series on inequality, the United States now arguably has a more unequal distribution of wealth than traditional banana republics like Nicaragua, Venezuela and Guyana."
    U.S. Income Inequality: Top 1 Percent Take Home 24 Percent Of U.S. Income

    "It's even more revealing to compare the actual rates of increase of the salaries of CEOs and ordinary workers; from 1990 to 2005, CEOs' pay increased almost 300% (adjusted for inflation), while production workers gained a scant 4.3%. The purchasing power of the federal minimum wage actually declined by 9.3%, when inflation is taken into account."
    Who Rules America: Wealth, Income, and Power

    "Robert Reich, former Secretary of Labor under President Bill Clinton recently cited a Forbes magazine story that reported the combined net worth of the 400 richest Americans climbed 8% during the last year, while the rest of America has gotten poorer. Reich says, "only twice before in American history has so much been held by so few, and the gap between them and the great majority been a chasm--in the late 1920's and in the era of the robber barons in the l880's."
    Will income inequality cause class warfare? | Psychology Today
    what was the answer of that article you cited? (I read it)



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    Re: Do You Want Higher Taxes?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    what was the answer of that article you cited? (I read it)
    I cited 3 articles in the post. Which one did you read, and why only one of them? Did you have some numbered opinions you wanted to share about them?
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: Do You Want Higher Taxes?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    I cited 3 articles in the post. Which one did you read, and why only one of them? Did you have some numbered opinions you wanted to share about them?
    The last one-no clear answer



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    Re: Do You Want Higher Taxes?

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    In that case, I have to apologize. When I first went back, I saw your link to an article that IMO argued against "encouraging dependency". I did not realize that you had posted two links. IOW, I missed the link to your OP, which I have now gone back and read. My bad

    I happen to agree with the main thrust of that OP. There are disincentives in the welfare system that discourages welfare recipients from making slightly more money. I have no quarrel with your criticisms on that score, and I apologize if my confusion led you to believe that I was criticizing the OP. The only objection I have now, is not with your facts or your conclusion, but with the language of "dependency". When welfare recipients make decisions to maximize their income, as your OP describes, I don't see that as "encouraging dependency". I think it's a sign that these welfare recipients are developing the financial acumen necessary for survival in this economy. IMO, that's the opposite of dependency.

    So basically, we have a difference in rhetoric, not values or positions. Again, my apologies for the confusion
    No problem, lol! I apologize if I offended you in any way and I agree with you, recipients making more income is not encouraging them to stay on the system. It is the cut-offs that encourage recipients to stay on the system.

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    Re: Do You Want Higher Taxes?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    The last one-no clear answer
    TD ... I see you have not commented on my OP : http://www.debatepolitics.com/polls/...post1059654691

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    Re: Do You Want Higher Taxes?

    Quote Originally Posted by MusicAdventurer View Post
    TD ... I see you have not commented on my OP : http://www.debatepolitics.com/polls/...post1059654691
    My job is to spread light and not to master

    I get 375 an hour, would you care to retain my services and I will give you a written legal opinion?



  10. #590
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    Re: Do You Want Higher Taxes?

    Quote Originally Posted by MusicAdventurer View Post
    No problem, lol! I apologize if I offended you in any way and I agree with you, recipients making more income is not encouraging them to stay on the system. It is the cut-offs that encourage recipients to stay on the system.
    No harm, no foul, no problem!

    But I don't see how the cutoffs encourage them to stay on welfare, when welfare is limited to 5 years. It sounds more like low wages are keeping them on welfare. Again, that's not dependency.

    Dependency is a rightwing myth that portrays the poor as not being willing to work and who prefer to remain on welfare. While you do point to problems with the way the safety net operates, I do not believe that "dependency' is the problem here. It's a more structural problem involving how govt agencies calculate the aid they will give combined with an economy that does not provide a living wage.

    The problem isn't that the poor don't want to work; the problem is that system doesn't work. It is unfair to blame the poor for the problems created by the system, and the word "dependency" does blame the poor, and leaves the system blameless. Thats the reason why the rightwingers love to use the word. They like to blame the poor.
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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