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Thread: Do You Want Higher Taxes?

  1. #491
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    Re: Do You Want Higher Taxes?

    We do NOT have a free market, or a free market economy....
    Free means unencumbered, and our market is full of rules that are created by the wealthy, for the wealthy....to the detriment of the small investor.
    The average person in the USA had better get accustomed to living like serfs or peasants, since we are sliding rapidly toward the kind of economy that Mexico has....
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    Re: Do You Want Higher Taxes?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mach View Post
    Are you new to economics? I already posted the China info to refute you.
    But let's shove India up your junk too:



    Did you read that? Their socialist bull**** policies closed off their economy to the world, and create a CRISIS. JUST LIKE CHINA, they solved their economic woes by introducing freedom to the people financially, i.e. capitalism. And now, they are described as capitalist.

    You do realize you are contradicting reality just as some claim Fox news or Glen Beck use to right? I mean, you're spreading terribly misinformed rhetoric, and it's all so trivially available to anyone who is genuinely interested.
    So India is an example of true free market capitalism aye? Please see the following regarding India's market:

    Heavy taxation and government regulation of the market have led to a rather mixed-economy, which is now neither strictly capitalist or socialist-inspired
    Is India a capitalist country

    Again, you are not providing fully truthful information, no one is arguing that capitalism does not have is positive qualities ... however, you seem to refuse to admit that capitalism needs to be regulated .. am I hearing you argument correctly?

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    Re: Do You Want Higher Taxes?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mach View Post
    Are you new to economics? I already posted the China info to refute you.
    But let's shove India up your junk too:



    Did you read that? Their socialist bull**** policies closed off their economy to the world, and create a CRISIS. JUST LIKE CHINA, they solved their economic woes by introducing freedom to the people financially, i.e. capitalism. And now, they are described as capitalist.

    You do realize you are contradicting reality just as some claim Fox news or Glen Beck use to right? I mean, you're spreading terribly misinformed rhetoric, and it's all so trivially available to anyone who is genuinely interested.
    Once again, neither China nor India are free market economies. Let me know when you can name a free market economy that has lifted its' people out of poverty
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    Re: Do You Want Higher Taxes?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mach View Post
    Deflecting with new claims about boobs doesn't save your recent failures in debate and apparently in understanding really basic facts about world economies. Anyone can read the thread and see how you can't really handle being corrected gracefully.
    Let me know when you can identify when and where a free market economy has lifted its' people out of poverty. Your attempts to debate China and Indias economy is the deflection.
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    Re: Do You Want Higher Taxes?

    Quote Originally Posted by MusicAdventurer View Post
    TurtleDude, I am not sure you are understanding the concept. Let me give you an example ...

    lets say person A made $100 per week and person B made $10,000 per week.

    Now lets suppose that a real flat tax existed and it was 25% of total income.

    That would mean person A would pay $25 and person B would pay $2,500

    While person B is paying a much greater amount than person A ($2,475 more), they are still paying the same percent of their money

    Additionally, person A is actually hurting more than person B as he/she is only left with $75 and person A is left with $7,500. Because expenses don't magically take into account your income level, person A is loosing much more by giving 25% (i.e. $25) and person B hardly notices the 25% that they pay out.

    Do you understand what I am saying? What this means is that your argument that the top 2% is paying way more than any other similar numbered group of people somehow is not "fair" ... is preposterous, as I just outlined above ... those 2% barely feel the taxes they have to pay, its like the taxes do not exist relatively speaking. Hope this helps.
    I understand perfectly-you want people to pay based on their ability (from each according to their ability). I reject that. If you receive the same value you ought to pay the same but I will accept paying the same percentage even if that means the second guy pays many times more for the same value



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    Re: Do You Want Higher Taxes?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mach View Post
    Are you new to economics? I already posted the China info to refute you.
    But let's shove India up your junk too:



    Did you read that? Their socialist bull**** policies closed off their economy to the world, and create a CRISIS. JUST LIKE CHINA, they solved their economic woes by introducing freedom to the people financially, i.e. capitalism. And now, they are described as capitalist.

    You do realize you are contradicting reality just as some claim Fox news or Glen Beck use to right? I mean, you're spreading terribly misinformed rhetoric, and it's all so trivially available to anyone who is genuinely interested.
    The overwhelming majority of average people in both of these countries lives in poverty with a small percentage of people living in luxury. Ultimately, capitalism ends in some type of feudalism.
    “In politics, stupidity is not a handicap.” -Napoleon

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    Re: Do You Want Higher Taxes?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mach View Post
    So Wiki is wrong? Please cite counter examples if you want to chase that goose.
    No, I do not disagree. I think China is a great example of STATE capitalism. That's not free market capitalism, so you know. And that's what I said.

    State capitalism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    State capitalism has various different meanings, but is usually described as a society wherein the productive forces are controlled and directed by the state in a capitalist manner, even if such a society calls itself socialist.[1] Corporatized government agencies and states that own controlling shares of publicly listed firms, thus acting as a capitalist itself, are two examples of state capitalism. State capitalism has also come to refer to an economic system where the means of production are privately owned and the state exerts considerable control over the allocation of credit and investment. State capitalism is a term that is also used (sometimes interchangeably with state monopoly capitalism) to describe a system where the state is intervening in the markets to protect and advance the interests of Big Business. This practice is often claimed to be in sharp contrast with the ideals of both socialism and laissez-faire capitalism.[2]

    Within Marxist literature, state capitalism is usually defined in this sense: as a social system combining capitalism — the wage system of producing and appropriating surplus value in a commodity economy — with ownership or control by a state. By that definition, a state capitalist country is one where the government controls the economy and essentially acts like a single giant corporation.[3] Friedrich Engels, in Socialism: Utopian and Scientific, states that the final stage of capitalism would consist of ownership over production and communication by the bourgeois state.[4]

    There are various theories and critiques of state capitalism, some of which have been around since the October Revolution or even before. The common themes among them are to identify that the workers do not meaningfully control the means of production and that commodity relations and production for profit still occur within state capitalism. Other socialists use the term state capitalism to refer to an economic system that is nominally capitalist, where business and private owners reap the profits from an economy largely subsidized, developed and where decisive research and development is undertaken by the state sector at public cost.[3]

    This term is also used by some advocates of laissez-faire capitalism to mean a private capitalist economy under state control, often meaning a privately owned economy that is under economic planning. Some even use it to refer to capitalist economies where the state provides substantial public services and regulation over business activity. In the 1930s, Italian Fascist leader Benito Mussolini described Italian Fascism's economic system of corporatism as "state socialism turned on its head."[5] This term was often used to describe the controlled economies of the great powers in the First World War.[6]
    Murray Rothbard, a laissez-faire capitalist thinker, uses the term interchangeably with the term state monopoly capitalism, and uses it to describe a partnership of government and big business where the state is intervening on behalf of large capitalists against the interests of consumers.[29][30] He distinguishes this from laissez-faire capitalism where big business is not protected from market forces. This usage dates from the 1960s, when Harry Elmer Barnes described the post-New Deal economy in the United States as "state capitalism." More recently, Andrei Illarionov, former economic advisor to Russian President Vladimir Putin, resigned in December 2005, protesting Russia's "embracement of state capitalism."[31]

    The term is not used by the classical liberals to describe the public ownership of the means of production. The economist Ludwig von Mises explains the reason: "The socialist movement takes great pains to circulate frequently new labels for its ideally constructed state. Each worn-out label is replaced by another which raises hopes of an ultimate solution of the insoluble basic problem of Socialism—until it becomes obvious that nothing has been changed but the name. The most recent slogan is "State Capitalism." It is not commonly realized that this covers nothing more than what used to be called Planned Economy and State Socialism, and that State Capitalism, Planned Economy, and State Socialism diverge only in non-essentials from the "classic" ideal of egalitarian Socialism."[32]
    State Capitalism and Free Market Capitalism are two VERY different things. Thanks for playing,.
    Last edited by Ikari; 07-19-11 at 01:49 PM.
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    Re: Do You Want Higher Taxes?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    I understand perfectly-you want people to pay based on their ability (from each according to their ability). I reject that. If you receive the same value you ought to pay the same but I will accept paying the same percentage even if that means the second guy pays many times more for the same value
    If you understood what I am saying, I don't think you would think that the wealth are heavily burdened by paying more taxes than the poor .. I mean seriously ... do you think its such a burden to the wealthy? Give me a break! Are you basing your opinion on some illogical ideological principle that is completely selfish in nature, or do care at all about your fellow man/woman?

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    Re: Do You Want Higher Taxes?

    Quote Originally Posted by MusicAdventurer View Post
    If you understood what I am saying, I don't think you would think that the wealth are heavily burdened by paying more taxes than the poor .. I mean seriously ... do you think its such a burden to the wealthy? Give me a break! Are you basing your opinion on some illogical ideological principle that is completely selfish in nature, or do care at all about your fellow man/woman?

    He has a habit of calling people parasites.

  10. #500
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    Re: Do You Want Higher Taxes?

    Quote Originally Posted by MusicAdventurer View Post
    If you understood what I am saying, I don't think you would think that the wealth are heavily burdened by paying more taxes than the poor .. I mean seriously ... do you think its such a burden to the wealthy? Give me a break! Are you basing your opinion on some illogical ideological principle that is completely selfish in nature, or do care at all about your fellow man/woman?
    You just don't get it. You are blind to philosophies that reject your belief that the main issue is cost imposed on a person. What is really selfish is saying those who can afford more taxes (based on your belief that they don't need all that "extra money") havea duty to not only pay what they use but to pay for thousands of others. You are far more selfish than me because you want to impose massive costs on others merely because they are more industrious than you are. You reject the entire concept of paying your share for what you get



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