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Thread: Do You Want Higher Taxes?

  1. #481
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    Re: Do You Want Higher Taxes?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mach View Post
    You're dodging. Stop. This directly addresses your post
    http://www.debatepolitics.com/polls/...post1059662383


    Answered:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy...ublic_of_China


    China was centrally planned (under communism of course) and was stagnant for decades.
    They added capitalism to their markets and it EXPLODED, taking their poverty rate from 53% to 2.5%. Freedom good eh?

    Of course that's just one example. Freedoms in the marketplace are prone to lifting entire populations out of poverty, improving quality of life, giving more people political and social power, etc.
    Saying that China is a free market has got to be the most idiotic idea I've read on DP.

    However, I haven't gotten to read the "Apes descended from Man" thread yet

    And China is not capitalistic. It allows private enterprise. Private enterprise alone does not make a system capitalism
    Last edited by sangha; 07-19-11 at 12:54 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

  2. #482
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    Re: Do You Want Higher Taxes?

    Quote Originally Posted by Neomalthusian View Post
    What you're saying is well understood on both sides, but it doesn't prove anything other than things always seem unfair to the poor.

    The unfairness in your example is simply that some people make very little money and some people make a lot. The $100 a week guy is hurting to a similar degree even if tax rates are zero. Suffering and fairness is subjective and it's not going to go away (at all) by tweaking tax rates.
    You are right the $100 person is going to be hurting regardless and the $10,000 guy isn't going to hurt at all. However, as I mentioned before, the $100 guy will hurt more from that 25%, much more. If you were to loose your right arm and I were to say, "oh, he's already suffering, so we may as well go ahead and take his left arm too", this would be analogous to the point you are making.

    Additionally, the government recognizes that, comparatively speaking, the $25 from the $100 guy will do nothing for contributions sake compared to the $2,500 from the $10,000 guy ... so they figure ... why take his left arm too?
    Last edited by MusicAdventurer; 07-19-11 at 01:07 PM.

  3. #483
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    Re: Do You Want Higher Taxes?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    That...that's not free market capitalism in China. It's all State controlled essentially.
    People's Republic of China - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    China's economy is mainly characterised as a market economy based on private property ownership[122][123] and is one of the leading examples of state capitalism.[124][125]
    So Wiki is wrong? Please cite counter examples if you want to chase that goose.

    The political system is one party communist/socialist, and is authoritarian.
    As we saw in many marxist styled states, the socialist/communist party rules, prohibits anyone from forcing them out via absolute control/authority. Then they start to fail. Then they look to other nations for evidence of how to fix their situation. They encounter one obvious solution
    - Free up the economic structure (capitalism)

    And lucky for them and us, this economic freedom is eroding the authoritarian status quo. It may not happen in a decade, but I suspect eventually you'll see far greater improvements in their political/social freedoms in no small part as a result of the bleed-through from their economic freedoms and cultural assimilation from trade.

    Yes, their political/social system is still heavily authoritarian (as marxism results in, in practice). That has nothing to do with the fact that they are still primarily capitalist and booming, as a result. The real interesting question in the next century will center on this exact issue.
    - Will China demonstrate that it must reform politically/socially as it has economically. OR, will China demonstrate that a mostly free market, paired with a strong authoritarian political system is competitive or outright dominant on the world stage compared to nations with far more open political/social systems.

    I hope the latter.

  4. #484
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    Re: Do You Want Higher Taxes?

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    Saying that China is a free market has got to be the most idiotic idea I've read on DP.
    Private enterprise alone does not make a system capitalism
    So we have your rhetoric, vs wikipedia:
    People's Republic of China - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    People's Republic of China - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    China's economy is mainly characterised as a market economy based on private property ownership[122][123] and is one of the leading examples of state capitalism.[124][125]
    Of course if you had substantial evidence to the contrary, you'd have posted it by now. Keep being hard-headed about your mistakes though, it helps your reputation.

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    Re: Do You Want Higher Taxes?

    Quote Originally Posted by Neomalthusian View Post
    things always seem unfair to the poor
    Hmmm ... I wonder why that is ... ?

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    Re: Do You Want Higher Taxes?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mach View Post
    People's Republic of China - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


    So Wiki is wrong? Please cite counter examples if you want to chase that goose.
    A "market economy" is not the same as a "free market economy"
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    Re: Do You Want Higher Taxes?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mach View Post
    So we have your rhetoric, vs wikipedia:
    People's Republic of China - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


    Of course if you had substantial evidence to the contrary, you'd have posted it by now. Keep being hard-headed about your mistakes though, it helps your reputation.
    When will the free market boobs realize that a "market economy" is not the same as a "free market economy"?
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

  8. #488
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    Re: Do You Want Higher Taxes?

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    Yes, two of the largest socialist economies are growing faster than the US's.
    Are you new to economics? I already posted the China info to refute you.
    But let's shove India up your junk too:

    Until 1991, all Indian governments followed protectionist policies that were influenced by socialist economics. Widespread state intervention and regulation[193] caused the Indian economy to be largely closed to the outside world. After an acute balance of payments crisis in 1991, the nation liberalised its economy and has since continued to move towards a free-market system,[194][195] emphasizing both foreign trade and investment.[196] Consequently, India's economic model is now being described overall as capitalist.[195]
    Did you read that? Their socialist bull**** policies closed off their economy to the world, and create a CRISIS. JUST LIKE CHINA, they solved their economic woes by introducing freedom to the people financially, i.e. capitalism. And now, they are described as capitalist.

    You do realize you are contradicting reality just as some claim Fox news or Glen Beck use to right? I mean, you're spreading terribly misinformed rhetoric, and it's all so trivially available to anyone who is genuinely interested.

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    Re: Do You Want Higher Taxes?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mach View Post
    So we have your rhetoric, vs wikipedia:
    People's Republic of China - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


    Of course if you had substantial evidence to the contrary, you'd have posted it by now. Keep being hard-headed about your mistakes though, it helps your reputation.
    Actually, Wiki says that China is ...
    is one of the leading examples of state capitalism
    People's Republic of China - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    that's right .. state capitalism ... which is usually described as ...

    a society wherein the productive forces are controlled and directed by the state in a capitalist manner
    State capitalism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    perhaps I am not understanding what your point is, but the way I see it, in China, the productive forces are, in part, controlled and directed by the sate ... so, how is that true, free market capitalism again?
    Last edited by MusicAdventurer; 07-19-11 at 01:23 PM.

  10. #490
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    Re: Do You Want Higher Taxes?

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    When will the free market boobs realize that a "market economy" is not the same as a "free market economy"?
    Deflecting with new claims about boobs doesn't save your recent failures in debate and apparently in understanding really basic facts about world economies. Anyone can read the thread and see how you can't really handle being corrected gracefully.

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