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Thread: Do You Want Higher Taxes?

  1. #271
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    Re: Do You Want Higher Taxes?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    how is there a moral argument for it? the rich don't get any additional government benefits for paying most of the income taxes. they don't get more value received then those who have full citizenship benefits without being taxed for them
    Again, if the rich are still rich and the unlucky don't suffer as much .. who loses?

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    Re: Do You Want Higher Taxes?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    how is there a moral argument for it? the rich don't get any additional government benefits for paying most of the income taxes. they don't get more value received then those who have full citizenship benefits without being taxed for them
    let me just state this Turtledude: if you someday lost all your money and became poor, and then needed an operation that cost the public $300,000, I would totally support your right to have that operation. I would not want you to die in the street, just because your income taxes may not match the cost of this tax-payer funded benefit.

    that's what generosity, humanity, and love of your fellow-man is all about. we don't judge people by their wealth, and we don't provide for them what they need, based on the calculations of the IRS.

  3. #273
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    Re: Do You Want Higher Taxes?

    I don't think anyone ever wants higher taxes. I don't want to pay my bills, I don't want to have to use money to buy things, I wish I drove a Ferrari and flew a G6 to work. Simple fact is sometimes you have to do things that suck. Eventually all the Bush tax cuts will have to be phased out, the only way we couldn't do that is if somehow we dropped our budget down to 2 trillion a year (which I suggested in another thread how to do) and I think that is DOABLE but seriously all of our leaders have to make tough choices instead of sticking to some code they made up a few months prior that helped them abide to the flavor of the month.
    "We’re going to close the unproductive tax loopholes that allow some of the truly wealthy to avoid paying their fair share. In theory, some of those loopholes were understandable, but in practice they sometimes made it possible for millionaires to pay nothing, while a bus driver was paying ten percent of his salary, and that’s crazy." -Reagan

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    Re: Do You Want Higher Taxes?

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder View Post
    let me just state this Turtledude: if you someday lost all your money and became poor, and then needed an operation that cost the public $300,000, I would totally support your right to have that operation. I would not want you to die in the street, just because your income taxes may not match the cost of this tax-payer funded benefit.

    that's what generosity, humanity, and love of your fellow-man is all about. we don't judge people by their wealth, and we don't provide for them what they need, based on the calculations of the IRS.
    Here is the thing about what you said, if we actually had better regulations an operation would never cost him $300k. One of the shining examples of capitalism in the world, Japan has such a system that makes sure that it would never cost him as such if he were rich or poor.

    That is beside the point of the thread, but goes along with my point about bringing government spending down to 2 trillion...
    Last edited by JohnWOlin; 07-18-11 at 12:55 AM.
    "We’re going to close the unproductive tax loopholes that allow some of the truly wealthy to avoid paying their fair share. In theory, some of those loopholes were understandable, but in practice they sometimes made it possible for millionaires to pay nothing, while a bus driver was paying ten percent of his salary, and that’s crazy." -Reagan

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    Re: Do You Want Higher Taxes?

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnWOlin View Post
    Here is the thing about what you said, if we actually had better regulations an operation would never cost him $300k. One of the shining examples of capitalism in the world, Japan has such a system that makes sure that it would never cost him as such if he were rich or poor.

    That is beside the point of the thread, but goes along with my point about bringing government spending down to 2 trillion...
    oh, I'm sure certain transplants costs 300k or more.

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    Re: Do You Want Higher Taxes?

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder View Post
    oh, I'm sure certain transplants costs 300k or more.
    They shouldn't.

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    Re: Do You Want Higher Taxes?

    Quote Originally Posted by 1Perry View Post
    They shouldn't.

    787k is the average first year costs of a heart transplant. This assumes the first attempt works. After that the anti rejection drugs costs run from 1.5k to 2.5k also there are biopsies for life.

    Thee figures are from 2008 the latest available.

    Oh I guess I should mention heart transplants are the most expensive of the transplants and the most infrequent. The exception is a multiple transplant heart and lung, of course.
    Last edited by winston53660; 07-18-11 at 01:24 AM.

  8. #278
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    Re: Do You Want Higher Taxes?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    of course they do

    they can afford it

    it ingratiates them to people like you and it kills off their competition.
    Why would Warren Buffet or Bill gates care about impressing "people like me." Your reasoning is deeply flawed.

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    but Your idol Buffett has made sure the government won't get any of his estate
    Putting the estate under an irrevocable trust can insure that, and yet no family could sell the estate thereafter. The Kennedy's did this, and so do many super wealthy families.

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    why do libs use Buffett as justification to jack up the taxes on those making 200K or more a year?
    Why do you continually misrepresent my argument? I have NEVER claimed that those making 200k or more should pay more. I advocate the FLAT tax with the super wealthy paying the same as EVERYONE else.

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    The only hatred I constantly see comes from the envious who blame the rich on their failure to achieve.
    Ad hom. Rather than attacking a posters argument. You, instead, emotionalize this debate with your unfair generalizations. It's a poor tactic.

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    I think you are clueless about me but then again given how short a time you have been here I can understand your confusion.
    You sound like the incarnate of Limbaugh, and most of your posts are predictably partisan.

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    what hurts the middle class? they pay less taxes than the top 3-5%
    That really depends on how you define the middle class. We obviously do not agree on this point. Also, tax rates don't tell the entire tale:

    Atlanta’s corporate giants pay widely varying tax rates to Uncle Sam under a murky system that allows companies to reap tax benefits from mergers, overseas expansions and other moves.

    Some cut their taxes the hard way. Delta Air Lines expects to pay no federal income taxes for several years, it said in regulatory filings, because of tax credits stemming from huge losses in recent years.

    But it appears that other highly profitable companies pay federal income taxes significantly below the top corporate income tax rate of 35 percent, regulatory filings indicate. Sometimes, that rate is lower than the typical middle class family. And sometimes, it’s nothing.

    Companies don’t disclose what federal income taxes they actually pay, but some tax experts say so-called “current” income tax expenses disclosed in their regulatory filings are a good indicator. Companies also disclose the total of their yearly cash income tax payments to all state, local, foreign and federal jurisdictions where they operate.

    A review by The Atlanta Journal-Constitution of tax disclosures by five of the largest Atlanta companies showed:

    - Coca-Cola’s “current” federal tax expense — not counting “deferred” taxes that might not be paid for decades, if ever — was $470 million last year. That was only 6.5 percent of the $7.2 billion in pre-tax profits that Coca-Cola reported for its U.S. operations in annual disclosures to investors last year. (A Coca-Cola spokesman said the company actually paid federal income taxes “significantly higher” than $470 million last year. It also said its federal tax rate worked out to 38 to 39 percent because its taxable income was lower than the $7.2 billion reported to shareholders, but didn’t release supporting figures.) Story continued. . .

    Quote Originally Posted by Mayor Snorkum View Post
    Who cares if the rich get richer?

    That's never been a problem in any civilized society. Rich people have money to spend and that grows the economy and that means jobs grow.

    What should scare the living **** out of you is when a bunch of self-proclaimed elitists arrogate to themselves the authority and the power to decide who is making too much money and how they should be punished for being successful.

    There's not one word in the Constitution of the United States or in the Declaration of Independence that says people who succeed in life should be punished for their success.

    People like Warren Buffet? OF COURSE he wants people punished for making too much money. The ranks of millionaires was swelling every year, until Obama, and that meant there were too many nouveau riche moving into his beloved Laguna Beach and taking up the parking at his favorite restaurants. Every REAL American must question the motives of anyone seekin to punish success. Punishing success is unamerican.
    Nonsense. The trickle down effect, so called, has proven ineffective especially when combined with deregulation. Expecting multi billion dollar corporations to regulate themselves is like a fox guarding the hen house. Who do you think lobbied for deregulation? Wealth is power, and concentrated wealth has never been good for any society.
    “In politics, stupidity is not a handicap.” -Napoleon

  9. #279
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    Re: Do You Want Higher Taxes?

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder View Post
    oh, I'm sure certain transplants costs 300k or more.
    Sure if you have a for profit system like America as opposed to private companies running as a non-profit in Japan.
    "We’re going to close the unproductive tax loopholes that allow some of the truly wealthy to avoid paying their fair share. In theory, some of those loopholes were understandable, but in practice they sometimes made it possible for millionaires to pay nothing, while a bus driver was paying ten percent of his salary, and that’s crazy." -Reagan

  10. #280
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    Re: Do You Want Higher Taxes?

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnWOlin View Post
    Sure if you have a for profit system like America as opposed to private companies running as a non-profit in Japan.
    Japan also makes great cars. I have read that all employees involved in the manufacturing process are paid very well, included in the decision making process and many other way that their employees are treated better. Yet somehow here in the U.S. we seem bent on treating employees like crap and making the decision making process only in the hands of a few ... our cars are also crap ... hmmm .. perhaps we should be taking notes

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